Longturn Forum

In LT31 we spoke a lot before the game and a LOT after the game, about how the settings and rule set effect the game. I know people don't want to reveal strategies during the game, but I thought we should at least log some of the features that we notice that work well and don't work in LT32, while we play...

1. Team feature is really neat in the sense that you are forced to play with people for the long term
2. The team feature is also frustrating, because you cannot 'kick' out a team player that is behaving badly - could that be instated? So that we create kind of outcast nations without teams?

"Forgetting" techs sucks.
- It doesn't have a base in reality
- It pisses off the player who looses out.
- If we want to limit stealing, it's much more straightforward to set diplchance.

Cannot use enemy infrastructure
- It doesn't have much base in reality for roads
- Would prefer some compromise - slightly reduced movement

Reduced terrain defence bonuses
- Good setting, I feel it's now 'just right'

ste wrote:"Forgetting" techs sucks.
- It doesn't have a base in reality

Cannot use enemy infrastructure
- It doesn't have much base in reality for roads

I agree that neither of these have a base in reality and I was also really pissed about it in LT31, but regarding the roads, in LT31 we could just blitz across a whole island and a player would log in and be totally wiped out in no time. If it is programmable, then I would say roads can be used by anyone, but railroads only by the player who controls the territory - that would be more like reality and still prevent the really quick blitzes later in the game.

As much as I am now making use of the stealing to make my opponent lose tech, I do actually agree with ste that it's such a pain.

I like the idea of not able to use the enemy infrastructure. That makes it harder to conquer anyone in one turn. It also makes strategic planning more important and makes it harder to steal from the enemy.

It's also realistic not to be able to use the roads the enemy has. In real life the enemy would probably control the roads in a way or another.

Stealing and losing techs was a way too powerful weapon in LT31. I hope the restriction of using the enemy infrastructure changes that.

wieder wrote:It's also realistic not to be able to use the roads the enemy has. In real life the enemy would probably control the roads in a way or another.

Yeah. It might sound non-realistic but in fact it actually is realistic. Actually it should be like that even for the defender, if the area is hostile.

We were trained not to use roads in the army, marching hours in the forest just few metres beside the road, because on road we would have been easy targets for the enemy.

Well, of course in ancient warfare there might have been situations when you might use roads to march big armies fast without that problem/risk. It's not easy to make non-realistic game system actually realistic for all situations.

ste wrote:"Forgetting" techs sucks.
- It doesn't have a base in reality

How doesn't it have base in reality? Human history is nothing but forgetting tech and learning it again. It's just these last few 100 years when humans have actually learned to keep it.

ste wrote:"Forgetting" techs sucks.

I agree losing techs sucks. The reason it was added was to discourage sharing techs, which I think it has been successful at. If you want to give someone a tech, then you risk losing one yourself. Otherwise in LT30 one person researched a tech, and it spread to practically everyone player in the game in a few turns. So I think we have to keep it.

There were several good ideas about how to deal with quick moves around TC... e.g. jhh wrote something about a system where the 10 hours count from when you click 'TURN DONE'...

Can you guys post these here, so we can take them into account for future games? Also, the whole pre-fortress/trench thing should be sorted for future games (or at least discussed thoroughly).

Xercise wrote:There were several good ideas about how to deal with quick moves around TC... e.g. jhh wrote something about a system where the 10 hours count from when you click 'TURN DONE'...

I don't think that idea was from me.

The best idea I've come up -- that I personally regard as such -- has been to make units move mostly on turn change using small change to goto functionality (and probably a lot of smaller changes to other things when neccessary).

I've described that on our Finnish Longturn patch Github as issue #7:

I propose that we limit unit moving so that when turn changes and after goto routines are done, the server iterates all units and changes move points to maximum 1.

This way units cannot move faster than 1 tile during the turn except by using goto.

I'm not sure if there is any unintentional side effects to this change. Please comment here if you see problems.

Is there anything -- like worker actions -- that will take more than 1 move and should be done in one turn change?

I want to add for future reference that the diplomatic settings in this ruleset should be revisited or at least be made clear.

Seems like veteran status does help against stealing by a green diplomat, but not that much. All in all it seems really variable; sometimes one of my defending dips will take out 4 invading dips, while other times an invading dip will go right past my defenders and steal a tech.

I thought an invading diplomat always had to eliminate all defending dips before anything could be stolen? Can somene confirm or deny that?

I think workers should also be able to pillage. Not sure if that is just this ruleset or general.

Would like it if caravans could travel on road/rails. But maybe this is purposeful.

It seems kind of odd that diplomats can perform diplomatic actions from a boat, but spys cannot.