And the winner is....

monamipierrot · Post by **monamipierrot** » Tue May 22, 2012 11:01 am

Ok, is there anyone who knows what' going on in LT30? Who are the winners? Are there any winners?

Duncan_Shriek · Post by **Duncan_Shriek** » Tue May 22, 2012 3:37 pm

I have been delegating for the last week. Back then only small remnants of the alliance pekka/MrS/edrim have been still fighting us (TNS), but ATM there is nothing essential changed from 7 turns ealier. I put forward the point of discussion among members of TNS about the list winners, as far as i recollect it:

We want 10 winners, as has been the result of the last poll on that matter.

1) Aloril, TNS
2) cgalik, TNS
3) Wieder, TNS
4) munk, TNS
5) Duncan_Shriek, TNS
6) Robodave, TNS
7) Jontte, TNS
8) kevin555, SB
9) jhh
10) Can't remember if we came to a decision there. Any applications?

TNS members forgoing their winning status:
SpaceDet/Steelski (delegated too long)
paveq (resigned in game)
Ollikka (told in IRC channel)

monamipierrot · Post by **monamipierrot** » Tue May 22, 2012 3:52 pm

What happens if, say, I'm not ok with the decision?

monamipierrot · Post by **monamipierrot** » Tue May 22, 2012 4:33 pm

Yeah, thanks, ever heard of "rethorical question?"

munk · Post by **munk** » Tue May 22, 2012 8:39 pm

monamipierrot wrote:What happens if, say, I'm not ok with the decision?

You can also join the discussion in-game and in the multi-alliance irc channel, which I believe you have access to. As those currently alive are generally part of a pan-alliance consisting of 3 or 4 mid-game alliances and at least one lone wolf (you), and we are currently all sort of playing the builder game and peacefully farming for the most part, we are throwing around ideas about ending the game and who should be on the winner list, assuming there isn't a war that RIPs enough players to make the point moot.

Currently i believe the ideas under consideration are a 10-player list that doesn't exactly match the one above, and another list. if either are agreed upon, then obviously the remainder of players will either need to voluntarily surrender or be RIP'd. These lists are in the early stages of discussion, so as a live player, you're welcome to have your say.

Lord_P · Post by **Lord_P** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:06 am

I think the real winners know who they are. I have no issue with any proposed winners and admit to being a diplomatic hanger-on who is happy to still be alive

monamipierrot · Post by **monamipierrot** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:17 pm

Lord_P wrote:I think the real winners know who they are. I have no issue with any proposed winners and admit to being a diplomatic hanger-on who is happy to still be alive

I think I'm also a diplomatic hanger-on, which I hate to be. I killed some 10 enemy units early in the game, that's all.
I've been proposed several betrayal to my old allies which implied war on them. I always refused and told enemies have to pass over my body 1st. Nobody attacked me. They could but they were not sure of how strong I was and which were my real friends. This is a diplomatic achievement. Better than nothing at all.
One can only blame me not to ever start a war or attacked some evil guy when he was too close. But this way I managed to survive without loosing ANY city, never.
The reason is that I found a BIG piece of land just for me and started settler it. I thought that if everything was fine and I could spare war, I could reach the modern times being one of the top10 players.
Once Wieder told me that in their alliance it was proposed to be the top 10 players to win (score-wise). He told me this because I wanted to get in, and telling me that I had no chance to be in the Top10. I answered that I think he was wrong, but if he had been right, then there was no reason to refusing let me in. This is the more or less how, later, I joined the big alliance.
Now I'm 8th, score-wise. Should I remember Wieder & friends the pact?
I know that there have been several brave guys who lost everything or almost everything fighting the Terror. But this is a game, and pacts are pacts.
I can put it in another manner:
The Big Alliance should honour my 8th place with one winner slot. THEN, it's up to me how to manage this slot. (Actually I may want to give it to the English, who knows?).

If you are not ok with this,
It would appear there's only one thing left for you to do.

Post by **wieder** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:54 pm

I think we offered you a place in the TNS but since we had only one open slot and you had your allies, there was no deal since we were sticking to the limit of 10 allies. I'm not sure what was the thing about that talk with you not able to be in the TOP-10 but at the time we were definitely ranking alliances and trying to see what kind of relations everyone had. I think we were pretty sure that no player outside certain big alliances was in a position to beat everyone else. And yeah, there were lot's of other stuff and politics.

BTW, I had no intentions on attacking my neighbours but I was prepared for striking back and quickly taking over the attacker. That strategy cost me some dev because I had to have plenty of reserve for that.

I have been only commenting about the winners list. Not actually making it. You know the irc channel where we make the actual deals.

elrik · Post by **elrik** » Thu May 24, 2012 6:45 pm

Hmm... As i saw in mailing list the 10th place is for me:) As the only member of NS there

mrsynical · Post by **mrsynical** » Thu May 24, 2012 8:38 pm

elrik wrote:Hmm... As i saw in mailing list the 10th place is for me:) As the only member of NS there

U Serious?! Seems wrong somehow...

IllvilJa · Post by **IllvilJa** » Thu May 24, 2012 10:44 pm

mrsynical wrote:
elrik wrote:Hmm... As i saw in mailing list the 10th place is for me:) As the only member of NS there
U Serious?! Seems wrong somehow...

If anyone in Northern Alliance should be included among the winners, then that one is Elrik. He provided tons of advice for the rest of us so we got at least SOME kind of economy limping along

. Also he managed to maintain the alliance's foreign affairs.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not going to claim any victory on my behalf but instead keep up with some fun sim-city activities until the game ends. (City building, terraforming and globalWarming/nuclearWinter-cleanup is a nice thing to do in LT...)

Best regards

/IllvilJa

Aloril · Post by **Aloril** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:24 am

This is proposed winner list, its mostly based on who to credit most for the win: 7 from TNS (aloril, wieder, cgalik, munk, duncan_shriek, jhh, ollikka), 2 from SB (kevin551, modeemirotta) and 1 from NA (elrik). Zero should be on list for doing significant amount of research, but unfortunately it doesn't have space left. Also 3 TNS members are not claiming position in it including one who has position 6 in score list.

For example Ollikka who currently has lowest score in this list sacrificed development to get writing fast for TNS and had next turn 3 diplomats out. His score is low because he was absent some crucial minutes at certain TC and was in worst war zone. Without war he would probably be in top5-top7 in score. Same of course could be said for many others too.

Munk sacrificed himself often to get things done, for example starved heavily to get gunpowder researched just in time for us to survive attack by terror. Also changed to fundamentalism and his fanatics was crucial in defense.

Duncan_shriek produced more research than anybody else in this alliance.

Me, cgalik, munk, wieder, paveq (not in list), duncan_shriek and kevin551 provided most military muscle. You can see this by looking at former Barbiez Alliance areas.

Jhh played role in uniting whole world against Barbiez alliance and his well trained spies in delegated nation breached many SDI defenses. He replaced Steelski in TNS.

Robodave and Jontte did their part in TNS and still are not in list.

Without Modeemirotta there might not have been research and other co-operation with SB alliance and without that we would have lost for sure. Without this terror+KG would have outresearched us.

Elrik provided boost in research, mostly near end and is representative of NA.

mrsynical · Post by **mrsynical** » Fri May 25, 2012 4:23 am

It seems there was an alliance of ~20/30 (as it seemed in the game). Yet you claim victory with just 10 people (because some people choose not to claim victory, and some have just been left out). It would be more realistic to just say there are ~20/30 people left and we choose not to fight any more...

Unfortunately, it seems getting the largest "alliance" as possible will be a key strategy in future games. It is a pity that a number of people chose to play with no interest in actually trying to win.

Aloril wrote:This is proposed winner list, its mostly based on who to credit most for the win: 7 from TNS (aloril, wieder, cgalik, munk, duncan_shriek, jhh, ollikka), 2 from SB (kevin551, modeemirotta) and 1 from NA (elrik). Zero should be on list for doing significant amount of research, but unfortunately it doesn't have space left. Also 3 TNS members are not claiming position in it including one who has position 6 in score list.

For example Ollikka who currently has lowest score in this list sacrificed development to get writing fast for TNS and had next turn 3 diplomats out. His score is low because he was absent some crucial minutes at certain TC and was in worst war zone. Without war he would probably be in top5-top7 in score. Same of course could be said for many others too.

Munk sacrificed himself often to get things done, for example starved heavily to get gunpowder researched just in time for us to survive attack by terror. Also changed to fundamentalism and his fanatics was crucial in defense.

Duncan_shriek produced more research than anybody else in this alliance.

Me, cgalik, munk, wieder, paveq (not in list), duncan_shriek and kevin551 provided most military muscle. You can see this by looking at former Barbiez Alliance areas.

Jhh played role in uniting whole world against Barbiez alliance and his well trained spies in delegated nation breached many SDI defenses. He replaced Steelski in TNS.

Robodave and Jontte did their part in TNS and still are not in list.

Without Modeemirotta there might not have been research and other co-operation with SB alliance and without that we would have lost for sure. Without this terror+KG would have outresearched us.

Elrik provided boost in research, mostly near end and is representative of NA.

Post by **wieder** » Fri May 25, 2012 8:54 am

Mrsynical,

When you have this many nations in one game, the game changes it's nature. There can and will be more beginners playing their first game and newcomers rarely target for winnin the veterans. Yeah, they might try to do that but they won't believe being able to do that. Now when there are more players, the number of those players becomes reasonably big. This gives the other players some possibilities. No, those possibilities won't have to include allying and the bigger and better players won't have to be the only ones to get advantage from this. In the LT30 many small beginners survived all the game and this gave them valuable experience. They saw how some of their small neighbour falled. They had the possibility to play through the whole game and they learned the value of good relations. And most certainly the value of knowing who is going to backstab someone!

It's not about getting the biggest alliance. That is not the lesson of the LT30. It's all about relations.

I kept my word in this game and so did many other players I met. While the alliances won't last from game to game, the reputation does. I know people I can trust with and some I can't trust. I hope the same thing eases deals for the newcomers, who are no longer green in the LT31 if they choose to play it.

If I was the small country in the end of the LT31 and allied with the best ones, I would be willing to agree them winning because sometimes there just isn't point in fighting and surviving is actually more fun!

edrim · Post by **edrim** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:35 am

wieder wrote:Mrsynical,
...

LOL

Mrsynical wrote:Unfortunately, it seems getting the largest "alliance" as possible will be a key strategy in future games. It is a pity that a number of people chose to play with no interest in actually trying to win.

Yes, next time get as many allies as you can and get NAP with others, you will be able to win in big game. As you know we didnt want to take more players then 7, it was no chance to win with ~25 players in ally.

SIMCITY rulez till the last wave of warfare. What is the reason of build units if they became obsolate ater 3 turns leaving baracks.

Remeber prev games, some time big alliances wins, but some times big alliances loose and this is fun to win in smaller squad then pack of wolfes.

In other way, if you are in big alliance you can even do some role play to laugh at weaker players.

Post by **wieder** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:32 am

The alliance size is not a requirement for succeeding. Besides, I've heard that alliance size will be limited in the future. Akfaew told us also that tech trading between alliances is disabled, so exchanging techs between alliances will be a bit slower in the future but it will happen.

You don't seem to get it what it comes to the relations. It's not about gathering as much power as possible.

I think that RTS will not be forbidden in the rules. Also, it seems to be allowed to play several nations at the same time by registering several of those - just to prove a point.

monamipierrot · Post by **monamipierrot** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:58 am

wieder wrote:While the alliances won't last from game to game, the reputation does. I know people I can trust with and some I can't trust.

I agree on everything you wrote EXCEPT on this. What "reputation" means? Alliance is builded on in-game reputation. Reputation=alliance, unless geopolitics force you to do otherwise. If you speak of reputation (e.g. not stabbing in the back, while keeping the word, sacrificing for the cause etc.) OUT of game, you're simply in the wrong path.
One of the main fails of the LongTurners playing style (and of LT30 flamewars about rules, which many joined) is that somehow things get out of the Game. They shouldn't, never. You trusted me in this game, and I trusted you. Please reset this for LT31. I will be the unknown (and evil till otherwise demonstrated) guy. You will be a bad guy for me too. Please don't trust me. Please don't trust (nor hate) anyone by default.
After all, I could be Terror itself hacking accounts, who knows? [evil laughter].
I think there's only ONE kind of reputation that survive from a game to another: it is the reputation that one didn't break rules, didn't get idle, didn't give up after the 1st difficoult situation, and fought till the last remaining city with a wounded green warrior on the top of a mountain.
After completing this tasks, I wouldn't competely mind if in the middle of LT31 he stabbed me in the back three times after swearing over the body of his beloved mum that our two nations were One and allied till the end of time. This doesn't affect reputation. This is a wonderful RP type of game.
Reputation of such player will gain +1 for me: spice in the game, wow! And this kind of reputation means that this guy is welcome in playing LT31, that's all (while idlers, cheaters etc. etc. are not that much welcome).
There's only one way to make me behave differently towards you or anyone else at the beginning of LT31: it is in the case YOU start building alliances on the account of LT30 "reputation". I would be against this kind of cross-game alliances by default.

Ok, enough, I hope we are still good friends (or good enemies).

See you in the Game.

Joe9009 · Post by **Joe9009** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:12 pm

monamipierrot wrote:
Ok, enough, I hope we are still good friends (or good enemies).

See you in the Game.

What a great game! Trust no one... Shoot that should have been my nick name. Then when people said trust "No one" people might think "Oh yeah 'No one' he is good people"

Fun times

bluemoth · Post by **bluemoth** » Sat May 26, 2012 11:54 am

I'm happy with that winners list and the fact I'm not on it. In other words, game over for me.

See you in the next game.

adsynth · Post by **adsynth** » Sat May 26, 2012 4:00 pm

Agreed. However, Elrik should be on the list.

Aloril · Post by **Aloril** » Sat May 26, 2012 4:08 pm

Elrik is in list, correct list was posted later (first list was missing one and was slightly incorrect), here again:

7 from TNS (aloril, wieder, cgalik, munk, duncan_shriek, jhh, ollikka), 2 from SB (kevin551, modeemirotta) and 1 from NA (elrik)

meton · Post by **meton** » Sat May 26, 2012 5:21 pm

IMHO, the list is good.

Jontte · Post by **Jontte** » Sat May 26, 2012 5:30 pm

I'm okay with the list

monamipierrot · Post by **monamipierrot** » Sat May 26, 2012 6:07 pm

how does the score-ranking works? What happens to non-winners?