Longturn Forum

I'll edit the tech costs by hand and will make the early techs to cost 30 as they are with sci box 100.

In LT43 with experimental tech costs and scibox 40 the full tech tree cost about 500 000 bulbs. This was said to be too much with teamless and with tech trading on.

In LT44 with experimental tech costs and sci box 60 the full tech tree cost about 750 000 bulbs. Both teams had some less played nations and the team size was close to 20. This was told be be a bit too cheap.

The standard tech cost with sci box 100 is about 66 000 bulbs.

Now the question is, how much should the full tech tree cost in LT45 with tech trading turned off? My current estimate 120 000 - 150 000 bulbs.

My two cents... If team w/ tech trading use what we had in LT43. If teamless w/o tech trading use experimental tech costs w/ scibox 15.

I may be wrong but I think the full tech tree cost in LT44 is just under the 1100k bulbs.

wieder wrote:
In LT44 with experimental tech costs and sci box 60 the full tech tree cost about 750 000 bulbs. [...] This was told be be a bit too cheap.

Due to the nature of experimental tech cost it's not possible in T50 to judge it to be "too cheap".
Also you need to keep other parameters stable in future games if you argue that way, for example tiles/player.

In general, a lot of quite new players have a lot of opinion. In general, that's great. But this is longturn. So take your time.

Same goes for archers, btw. It's plain wrong to maintain they would be "too weak". Depends on the number you use ...

1100k bulbs? weird... But you may be right about that.

scibox 15 would work unless it would also make the early techs too cheap. All the level 1 techs would cost about 8-10 bulbs with that and that just really really cheap.

So instead the plan is to edit all the tech costs by had so that they are not too cheap or expensive. This is why the cost of the full tech tree is needed. With scibox 100 I'll make the 1st level techs to cost 30 and the full tech tree to cost the pre-defined number of bulbs. After that we can fine tune it by changing the scibox value. All the indivdual costs can be changed by editing the techs.ruleset file.

If the tech costs are simultaneously "too high" and "too low", doesn't that mean that they are scaling too quickly?

The tech costs seem to double or triple each tier, which gives you exponential growth costs that skyrocket very quickly. Nation's economies also grow exponentially...but not NEARLY at the same rate. Tech research "hits a wall" that you just have to wait to grow beyond.

wieder wrote:1100k bulbs? weird... But you may be right about that.

scibox 15 would work unless it would also make the early techs too cheap. All the level 1 techs would cost about 8-10 bulbs with that and that just really really cheap.

So instead the plan is to edit all the tech costs by had so that they are not too cheap or expensive. This is why the cost of the full tech tree is needed. With scibox 100 I'll make the 1st level techs to cost 30 and the full tech tree to cost the pre-defined number of bulbs. After that we can fine tune it by changing the scibox value. All the indivdual costs can be changed by editing the techs.ruleset file.

Maybe have the tech costs be something like "(Total # of prerequisites)^3"?

fran wrote:In general, a lot of quite new players have a lot of opinion.

*Whistles innocently*

Yes, the tech costs are scaling up too slowly with the default costs read from the ruleset (used in most past games like LT39, LT40, LT41).

And the tech costs are scaling up too fast with the experimental cost setting used in LT43 and LT44.

For fixing that we can edit the tech costs by hand.

wieder wrote:For fixing that we can edit the tech costs by hand.

That sounds like loads of fun!

I researched the whole tech tree in test game for LT44, and I liked it.
It's important the tech cost accelerates faster than civ growth to make some space for actual gameplay.

fran wrote:I researched the whole tech tree in test game for LT44, and I liked it.
It's important the tech cost accelerates faster than civ growth to make some space for actual gameplay.

Wait, wait, wait...you want to be able to build a military and use it BEFORE it becomes obsolete?

I’m with Fran & Hans on this one.

In my opinion, if technological trade will be ONLY
within a team of 4-5 players, then the cost of the entire technological wood should be 250 000 - 350 000 bulbs. If technological trade between teams is allowed and there will be an opportunity to receive technologies when seizing cities or stealing them, the value of their tree should be no less than in LT43.