The current state of the settings for LT34

[wieder]

I'm making some changes to the ruleset and will release those in an hour or two.

Luca:

1) The base ruleset used for LT31 was civ2civ 3 by bardo. You can chect that from this thread http://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?id=200
2) I will try to do a summary of the changes you need to know but it will be best of you check the ruleset or browse the tech tree and the units before starting to play
3) Yes it is. Download the LT34 ruleset from https://github.com/longturn/games/ and install it from there. Copy the .ruleset files to a similar directory under the Freeciv game dir and the serv file to a location where there are similar files. I can't test that now but you should get the idea. Perhaps

[wieder]

Here are the changes I made.

Pre-forts no longer change the ownership of the tile
City walls. Help updated about not losing population when a defending unit dies.
Fixed space structural bribe back to 100 and changed the cost of this to 800 (from 80)
Fixed cruise missiles: moves now 9 instead of 18
Fixed the help for Michelangelo's Chapel
Modified graphics for academy, migrants,aque/river+aque/lake, zeus, artemis, internet, tribalism, federation,pre-firt (stuff specific gfx and moved the default as an alt one)
Added magellans: Changed cost from 400 to 800.
Added lighthouse, changed the cost from 200 to 100.
Changed the cost of Shakespere's Theatre from 600 to 300
Changed the defense value of a cruiser from 6 to 8 and the attack value from 6 to 4. Help updated: The Cruiser is a strong defensive boat unit
The big siege units (from catapults to howizers) can now move without roads on desert, grassland, hills, plains, and tundra

I'm still unsure about the additional government center(s). Bamskamp made it here http://forum.longturn.org/search.php?ac ... ser_id=108 but I'm not sure how to copy that

[HanduMan]

City walls. Help updated about not losing population when a defending unit dies.

OK, but it still claims to be "ineffective against aircraft, helicopter, missile and sea units" which is not entirely true because it prevents population loss for those too.
(Sorry, this is me being pedantic again, sorry.)
I would have left the help text as it was and fixed the effect in question by nregging it with the unit classes mentioned. :p

Modified graphics for academy, migrants,aque/river+aque/lake, zeus, artemis, internet, tribalism, federation,pre-firt (stuff specific gfx and moved the default as an alt one)

Thank You!

I'm still unsure about the additional government center(s). Bamskamp made it here http://forum.longturn.org/search.php?ac ... ser_id=108 but I'm not sure how to copy that

Sorry but no can do.
That implementation is for freeciv 2.5 where the "Gov_Center" effect type was introduced.

Gov_Center
New in 2.5
City with non-zero effect value is considered Governmental center. Unless corruption is flat for entire nation, it depends on distance to nearest such center. In earlier versions this effect was coupled in to Capital_City effect.

We could give that "Capital_City" effect to a city with the 2nd palace but I'm pretty sure the freeciv 2.3 server could not survive too well with more than one capital per nation.

[wieder]

Ineffective against those units.. Yeah, I see it now. I was reading it as ineffective for doubling the defense factor but not for losing units. Maybe I'll just fix the help text and leave it like that. The enemies very rarely want to shrink the cities before the spies and with spies it's easier anyway. Also the idea is to make conquering cities more rewarding.

Actually, the cities won't lose population if the unit is killed with a sea unit even if there is no walls.

Yeah.. The government center was a 2.5 feature just like I didn't remember Maybe then just making the courts slightly cheaper.

Two other things I have forgotten.

The question about how to encourage cities bigger than 8 before supermarkets.

And how to change the terraforming. I think Kevin had some idea about it and akfaew reverted back to LT30 (?) or multiplayer settings. I'll need to check those.

[Luca]

Thanks for the explainations. I have downloaded the files from the zip linked in folder
http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=86
and pasted these files into the /data folder of my freeciv 2.3.
Then selecting the civ2civ3 ruleset and the appropriate scenario it seems that everything works well. This is a first step!

Now I would like to do the same with the files contained into
https://github.com/longturn/games/tree/master/LT34
but I do not understand how to download the files from this site... it seems that it is only possible to view something that looks like a list of commands or source code, but it seems impossible to download the entire files.
Again, sorry if the question is silly and thanks for your patience.

[wieder]

I just tested it like this with Windows 7 / Freeciv 2.3.4. Use your web browser to go to https://github.com/longturn/games/tree/ ... /data/LT34 and right click for saving the files in the following locations on your local machine.

Save the LT34.serv file to C:\Program Files\Freeciv-2.3.4-gtk2\data

Create a new folder LT34 and go there. You should now be in C:\Program Files\Freeciv-2.3.4-gtk2\data\LT34

From the web browser you are using to browse the ruleset, save all the .ruleset files (buildings.ruleser, cities.ruleset... etc...) there

Now you should be able to launch the game. At least with 1 player with the single player. Start a new game and select the LT34 ruleset and it should start. Someone will probably correct me about this but this is how I got it at least started without any additional programs.

[HanduMan]

Actually, the cities won't lose population if the unit is killed with a sea unit even if there is no walls.

Aargh! So the original help text was just fine. Assuming we all know this (which I had forgotten). Sorry about the mess.

Luca: If you want to play the game that you are launching according to wieder's directions you need to do a couple of changes:

1. With some text editor, open the LT34.serv file from /data folder
2. locate line
   set aifill=0
   and change the '0' to something bigger (for example the number of players currently enlisted for LT34). The map generator uses the number of players as a parameter so it would produce a very small map for only one player.
3. locate line
   set unitwaittime=36000
   and comment it out:
   #set unitwaittime=36000
   If left active, that setting prevents you to move your units for 10 hours after their last move if the turn changes inside that 10 hour time window.

Remember to save your changes before selecting the LT34 ruleset in the freeciv client.

[Luca]

Thanks for the explainations! I have followed wieder's and HanduMan's suggestions and everything worked smoothly: the folder and the files are in place. Then I have tried to start a new game with the LT34 ruleset and 50 players, but something odd happened: the map looked very small. Then I have done a /show all , and tilesperplayer was 100, although in the LT34.serv is listed 800 and I have loaded this ruleset just before starting the game!!! (moreover techlost is 0, huts is 50... so it is clear this is not the right ruleset). I do not understand why. :\

[evan]

Hi HanduMan,
you seem to know your way around these things, and you give really clear and detailed instructions, so I'm hoping you might be able to help me

I've been trying for a few days to download the ruleset for LT34, but my computer knowledge is fairly limited and I just can't work it out. I went through the whole frustrating experience last year with Greatturn - thought I had it - then realised it didn't work after all.

I'll try and supply as much relevant information as I can so you can see what I'm doing, and also see my reasoning/level of knowledge.

I use Windows 7. On my Control Panel it says my computer uses a 64 bit operating system, but Freeciv is stored under the Program Files (x86).

I tried to follow Wieder's instructions above for windows.
When I right click on the icon next to the LT34.serv file link it gives me the option to 'save page as', but when I try to put the file in the directory

C:\Program Files(x86)\Freeciv-2.3.5-gtk2\data

it then is waiting for me to supply the file name, so I put in

LT34.serv

and it responds that "I don't have permission to save in this location. Contact the administrator to obtain permission. Would you like to save in the Evan (or sometimes Documents) folder instead? yes/no"
I'm always logged in as an administrator.

I don't understand the language when it says 'save in this location', am I supposed to create a new folder first? Or does the act of saving it create the location?

So I created a new folder in the data folder called 'LT34.serv' but it didn't work.

When I try to drag the LT34.serv file to the data folder it says.
'Access is denied'

I tried all this on an earlier version 2.3.0 as well. 2.3.4 is no longer on the wiki page.
I have no trouble creating a new folder, but ...

So I tried clicking on the LT34.serv link and it brings up the list of settings, so I highlight all the text and try to put it in the new LT34.serv folder but it says "No items match your search" and the suggested file name changes back to 'games_LT34.serv at master · longturn_games · GitHub'

So I deleted the folder data\LT34.serv (this time when it asks me "to provide administrator permission to delete this folder" I simply need to click 'continue' and then it asks me if I'll allow Mozilla Firefox to make changes to this computer, so yes. Then when I try to save the file I call it LT34.serv and again it says I don't have permission and asks me if I want to save it elsewhere.

I created the data\LT34.serv folder again and tried dragging the highlighted text but this operation wasn't allowed.

I thought I'd try something else so I tried to replace civ1.serv and it seemed to register as a failed download.

If I'm not able to do this for some reason, is there a way to just replace the different civ1 rulesets like buildings, units etc. and just put the serv info in manually?

I probably get words like folder and file mixed up here.

If you're too busy at the moment, later would be great too. This must seem very confused to you. Hopefully there's still some kind of logic evident behind my confusion.

[HanduMan]

I cannot do it by wieder's directions either. I cannot find a right-click option to save the files. That 'save page as' saves the html for the page that is being shown on your browser.

Maybe you should log in to GitHub? I don't know GitHub at all, I'm using a TortoiseSVN client on my desktop to access the files in GitHub repository.

If you ever get to downoad the files, you don't need to create a LT34.serv folder, just a LT34 for the *.ruleset files. LT34.serv file goes in the feeciv-whatever\data folder (where you can see the other .serv files).

If your computer refuses to save the downloads under the program files then save them somewhere else first and try to fiddle them in later.

Hope this helps...

[HanduMan]

Thanks for the explainations! I have followed wieder's and HanduMan's suggestions and everything worked smoothly: the folder and the files are in place. Then I have tried to start a new game with the LT34 ruleset and 50 players, but something odd happened: the map looked very small. Then I have done a /show all , and tilesperplayer was 100, although in the LT34.serv is listed 800 and I have loaded this ruleset just before starting the game!!! (moreover techlost is 0, huts is 50... so it is clear this is not the right ruleset). I do not understand why. :\

How excactly did you "start a new game with the LT34 ruleset and 50 players"?
And did you do the "/show all" logged in to that running game?

[evan]

Thanks HanduMan,

that made a big difference. Moving the files somewhere else first seemed to work, I was logged in at Github too.

I think I was able to sort out where things are supposed to go, but this must be only partly right because it didn't work in the end. So I'll come back tomorrow and try things from scratch. Anyway, it might help other people like me see what's going on, and maybe someone will be able to see what still needs to be done.

If you open up the data folder (little arrow) you'll see all the other folders. For example you'll see there's one called civ2. This civ2 folder doesn't contain further folders inside it, so when you click on it you'll just see over in the right column all the ruleset files, buildings, units, etc. for civ2.

Create a new folder inside the data folder and call it LT34, and put all the ruleset files here. The civ.2 files included one called 'script.lua', but I couldn't find that one for LT34...

Now, If you single click on the data folder (without bringing up the list of the other folders) over on the right column it lists, first, all the folders, then all the files, where you'll see the civ2.serv file. Note it has a different icon.

So I put the LT34.serv file there with those other files.

Now when I start the game up I can choose the scenario game option, then browse, and then open the data folder, then I can see the file LT34.serv so I select that, and you move on to the screen where you select nations, choose options etc.

The chat displays:

[in black text] Evan: 'load C:\Program Files (x86)\Freeciv-2.3.5-gtk2\data\LT34.serv'
[green] /load: Could not load savefile: C:\Program Files (x86)\Freeciv-2.3.5-gtk2\data\LT34.serv
[black] Evan: 'take - '
[red] Evan has been removed from the game.
[red] AI*1 has been added as Easy Level AI-controlled Player.
[green] /take: Evan now controls Evan (Human, Alive).

Now it depends what you do, if you select LT34 from the Ruleset Version box the game starts immediately; if you select civ2civ3 then the chat shows all the new variables and waits for you to make further changes. But they're the wrong variables.
Either way when the game starts there's no (3x) movement, or bigger city radius, etc.

I tried selecting civ2civ3 from the box and then manually entering /rulesetdir LT34, and it didn't immediately start, but all the new variables it lists are still wrong, and when I entered the game it didn't have the changes either.

Anyway, I'll come back to it tomorrow.

While doing all this I accidentally worked out how to get the modpacks installed!
So I now know what the music sounds like. It's pretty lame, but the sound effects are good.
I was wondering what it must sound like for those players who leave the server on 24/7 keeping an ear open for the sound of troops marching.

I'm looking forward to playing some of those new maps too, especially the strangely titled 'Ocean Pacific'.
We Polynesians will feel very much at home in this LT34 island world, even if there's going to be nothing 'pacific' about it.

Yes, it is already Friday night here.
Oh well.

They say there are an infinite number of multiple timelines...
I wonder what that other Evan is doing right now who never clicked on that little 'freeciv' download...

[StratThinker]

Evan: 'load C:\Program Files (x86)\Freeciv-2.3.5-gtk2\data\LT34.serv'

You should rather use `/read C:\Program Files (x86)\Freeciv-2.3.5-gtk2\data\LT34.serv'. Also there is no need to store the serv file under Program Files, I prefer to keep it in a separate location to minimize the number of files under program files that I have to edit. You also probably want to comment out the following lines with a hash like I have done

Code: Select all

#set turnblock=enabled
#set unitwaittime=36000
#set allowtake=""
#set timeout=90000
#set compresstype plain
#set cmdlevel info
#metamessage "LW2a | More info: http://longturn.org/game/LW2/"
#metapatches longturn
#syncturn
#start

[evan]

Thanks,

I've got to the point where the starting units are dispersed like in the serv file, but the changes I make aren't there, so there's just one player.

Do you know how to make changes on the Github page and save the changes?

I can only get to the point where I can look at the patch 'Update LT34.serv' but not the whole thing.
The button that lets you view the whole file puts it into htm format.

[evan]

Wait... the 'Raw' button seems to do it.

[evan]

So i got the changes to the serv file, except for the line :

#set turnblock=enabled

I couldn't find it there and wasn't sure whether to add it or not.

But they went through and the game was working with the changes.

But then I realised that all the ruleset files were actually just internet shortcut icons, which was why there was no (3x) movement, civ2civ3 units like migrants, bigger city radius etc.

So I replaced them with the highlighted/selected text for each file, and it seemed to work, they were listed as RULESET files when they appeared in the LT34 folder, but when I ran the game I got this error message:

Could not load ruleset 'data/LT34/techs.ruleset':
In secfile_from_input_file() [../../../../utility/registry.c:590]: secfile 'data/LT34/techs.ruleset' in section 'NULL': Expected entry name file "data/LT34/techs.ruleset", line 5, pos 0
looking at : '<!DOCTYPE html>'

Does that mean even though it was called it a RULESET file when I saved it, it's still being read as an html file?

I should add that I was selecting the entire text for saving, including the lines that begin with

;

I'd assumed this marks the line as for human eyes only. Should these lines be left out?

[evan]

Ok I finally got it to work. I'm using Windows 7.

I was making the same mistake with the ruleset files that I was making with the serv file.

You need to click the 'Raw' button with the ruleset files as well, to turn them into a form that the game will recognise.

Luca, maybe you did what I did,
and the file you transferred over was actually just an internet link/shortcut. It appears in the folder, but the game ignores it and runs a default ruleset. If you don't have the 'aifill' reset you'll get a smaller map. Even if you'd put in 50 players in the opening screen, if you check the 'Nations' report there'll be just one nation, you.
Not sure why the techlost_recv = 0.

Remember, you need to be signed in in at Github if you want to make changes to a file .
Just above the body of the text, on the right there are some buttons/icons.
For changes use the pencil icon, second from the right.
These changes get saved as a 'fork' in your personal Github account - so it doesn't effect the main file.

After you've made your changes, click the green "Propose file change" button at the bottom left of the screen.
In the next screen scroll down and you'll see all the changes you made. But not the whole file.

To see the whole file you have to click on the "View" button.
But now, even though you can select and save the text, it won't work, the text will be saved in ''html' format, so you have to click on the "Raw" button first.

This will present you with the file in a form you can use. Just select/highlight the whole text and save it. You don't need to add '.serv' or '.ruleset', it does it for you, and if you do add it you'll get double, and the game won't be able to read it.

To avoid problems with access/permission I was saving all the files in the downloads directory first,
then transferring them to my <user name> directory.
then transferring them to the game.

The LT34.serv file goes directly into the data folder.
The ruleset files go into a new folder called LT34 (which you have to create new) that branches off from the data folder.

Another server option you'll probably want to change for the single player version would be the restriction on diplomacy to just human players. Unless you want a Mad Max/Waterworld version to play at home.
I just did this manually in the 'more game options' box, it's in the 'military' tab. You can set it to 'enabled for everone'.
The game seems to run fine, but you won't be able to change anything once the game has started.

You have to choose your nation after you've selected LT34 from the ruleset box though. It will just ask you again if you choose your nation first.

It also seems you have to choose a name from the list provided. When I tried to put my name in I started with a different nation.

I've just started running it, it seems to be fine, I'm running it with 50 players. I might start again with fewer players so it doesn't get too slow, but I've got another game like that and I find I actually get a lot of work done while I wait.

I'm still wondering about the line

#set turnblock=enabled

It's been removed already from the serv file, so it doesn't effect my single player game, but shouldn't it still be there? Without it the turns can't end, right?

And the lua script files that you see in the civ1 and civ2 files, is there supposed to be one in the LT34 file too ? Is it to do with the in-game Help Browser? What does it do in the civ2 game?

I'll have to read through all of the recent forum stuff here, because I've been too busy going insane trying to work out how to get it going. I don't wan't to repeat issues that have already been brought up.
Have these been mentioned:

* I don't seem to be able to rehome the units, and they are gradually losing HPs. I thought maybe they can't rehome if they don't have enough MPs left, but because they're injured they'll always have -%MPs.

* And I disbanded all the units to make sure the map wasn't revealed, and it was !!!

Anyway, if anyone's got any questions about how to get it running on Windows 7, I might be able to help.

BTW, what's the name of that language it's written in?

[StratThinker]

Do you have Git installed? You do not need it but you might want to eventually learn how to use it.

[HanduMan]

First of all, this thread has been severely contaminated, not least by my initiative. Sorry about that. Maybe some mod/admin could do a split or two?

evan: actually, you don't need to be logged in to GitHub to get the files from there, and you most certainly don't need to make the changes in there. Preferably not quite possibly. Now that you have found the 'Raw' button you can right-click it (yes, the button) and choose to save the contents on your computer ('Save link as...' in FireFox, 'Save target as...' in IE, ...). Once you have downloaded the files, you can make the changes with any text editor on your computer.

Unhomed units cannot be homed. With current settings they will die around turn 12 or so.

[Luca]

Thanks for the explainations! I have followed wieder's and HanduMan's suggestions and everything worked smoothly: the folder and the files are in place. Then I have tried to start a new game with the LT34 ruleset and 50 players, but something odd happened: the map looked very small. Then I have done a /show all , and tilesperplayer was 100, although in the LT34.serv is listed 800 and I have loaded this ruleset just before starting the game!!! (moreover techlost is 0, huts is 50... so it is clear this is not the right ruleset). I do not understand why. :\

How excactly did you "start a new game with the LT34 ruleset and 50 players"?
And did you do the "/show all" logged in to that running game?

Tat's wahat i did:
Launch freeciv
click "start new game"
in "number of players" selected 50
2ruleset version2: selected LT 34
click on "chat": /show all

A lot of options appear, most being different from LT 34, so it is clear that this ruleset had no effect

[Luca]

Luca, maybe you did what I did,
and the file you transferred over was actually just an internet link/shortcut. It appears in the folder, but the game ignores it and runs a default ruleset. If you don't have the 'aifill' reset you'll get a smaller map.?

Probably you are right, thanks for your suggestion. Anyway everything is very complicated and messy... why not making, instead of this strange gift site, just a dropbox or zipped folder containing all the necessary files? It seems that for playing this game one needs to have a Ph.D. in Computer Science (while unfortunately mine is just in Math). Game will start in five days and: rules are still changing, there does not exist a clear and explicit list of all rules and settings, many players don't have a version of the game that works correctly and allows to practise a bit. What to say? In this way new people willing to play get discouraged, so that this beautiful game doesn't have the success that it would deserve. As for me, I have played LT12 and I was one of the winners. I remeber that at that time the game was more simple and fair, rules were clear and the software working properly... but maybe it's just that I was younger. Anyway I will probably withdraw from this game.

[HanduMan]

If anyone ever makes the complete list of rule changes I think one worth mentioning would be the total absence of trade routes. :p

Another thing, is it intended that the city radius (tiles that a city can work) is wider that city's initial vision range? In game.ruleset there are settings

Code: Select all

; Square of initially city radius
init_city_radius_sq     = 15

; Square of initially visible radius (true distance).
init_vis_radius_sq      = 15

which would indicate that they were ment to be the same. But in effects.ruleset there are

Code: Select all

; Base vision range - radius of vision is sqrt(5) = 2.24
[effect_city_vision]
name    = "City_Vision_Radius_Sq"
value   = 5

; 5 + 5 = 10
[effect_city_vision_1]
name    = "City_Vision_Radius_Sq"
value   = 5
reqs    =
    { "type", "name", "range"
      "Tech", "Electricity", "Player"
    }

which override the setting in game.ruleset making the vision range smaller than actual working range of the city. This may lead to weird situations sometimes. The game puts the first worker to the best possible tile inside city radius when the city is founded. It may fall outside of the city vision range so you cannot see the tile being worked in city dialog. If you click on city center the worked tile gets replaced to somewhere that is visible. And you cannot put it back where it was unless you get some unit in the city to show you the light. :p

If it is intended that the city radius should grow along with city size then there should be effects for growing both working radius and vision radius. And in such manner that working radius should never be wider than vision. The other way round it wouldn't be a problem.

[edrim]

If it is intended that the city radius should grow along with city size then there should be effects for growing both working radius and vision radius. And in such manner that working radius should never be wider than vision. The other way round it wouldn't be a problem.

It is because you should never let your cities open, if you let your city open a nerby player can place a unit outside your empty city vision and get it in next turn. This is not a bug, this is feature,

[wieder]

The reason why we are using that kind of system for the files is that it allows us to make changes just to some specific parts of the rules and always see what was changed in comparison to the previous version. It's more like a tool for the admins to do the work required for setting up the game.

Another thing changed just recently are the players wanting to set up practice games. If I have understood correctly, this was not the case in the past. Of course the changing rules are one reason for this.

In the past there were not that many changes to the rules because there was no need for that. Once the games became bigger with Freeciv 2.3 everything became more complicated. The original ruleset was apparently designed for smaller maps, less people and for more turns suitable for a massive Freeciv game. We are still in the middle of the process of modifying the rules and there will be more changes to the next game. I can't know that for sure but it's very probable.

The rulesets have been modified in order to improve the game and prevent some stuff from being abused. In the last game people were extremely unhappy with tech trading and when taking that away while also making it more easy to play with the highly popular sim city style, it required some modifications.

You are of course right about how the rules should be available. The problem is that I have been the admin for the first time and there has been lots of stuff to learn and almost all my available time has been required for defining the ruleset. However I'll try to make a post combining all the changes. It will be a bit quick and dirty one but I hope it helps.

Also if someone could upload the ruleset as a zip file, that would be great. I don't have space for that. I can also mail the settings for few people if needed. Send me a message from the web page and tell where you would like to have the ruleset to be mailed.

[HanduMan]

If anyone ever makes the complete list of rule changes I think one worth mentioning would be the total absence of trade routes.

Thank you wieder for the exhaustive list of changes in the other thread! However, it does not explain this. The trade routes are completely disabled in the current LT34 ruleset. Is it meant to be that way?

(Also, the list still contains the killunhomed setting which was removed from ruleset later.)