#1 2018-11-18 14:31:52

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,827

An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

LT42 is a game with highly experimental settings but while it's not a ranking game, it's not fully experimental one.

There is an error with tech stealing settings. It was intended that you could steal techs with diplomats/spies and this was also documented. Now this is now working because of at least two missing settings.

set diplchance_steal=??
set techlost_recv=0

Not sure what the first value should be but those are the settings.

The unitwaittime was so obvious and game breaking feature that it needed to be fixed. However while the same goes, at least for some parts, with tech trading by stealing with units, this is a more difficult change to make after the game has started.

The game gas lots of different level diplomats that were intended to be used for stealing techs. Now because of an error this is not possible.

So the question is, should this feature be fixed even after the game has started? I would like to see it fixed but it's not super critical so I'm not suggesting to fix it without asking for opinions from the players.

1) no fix
2) fixing as soon as possible
3) fixing at a later time, like in 2-3 weeks
4) something else

Let us know what you think.

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#2 2018-11-18 15:25:37

fran
Player
Posts: 181

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

Leave it alone.
It's a known bug, kamblr reported it in test game. I also confirmed it.

Don't start changing stuff.

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#3 2018-11-18 15:37:04

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,007

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

Like I said, the intention was what I wrote in the help:
"you can use Diplomats and Spies to “steal” them - willingly from your allies or unwillingly from your enemies. Base chance to steal should be 50%. However, previous games showed some discrepancy so we are yet to be absolutely sure how this mechanics actually works."

So I'd put
set diplchance_steal=100
because, in combination with general diplchance, it will be at most 50, while in reality much less. In, was it, LT40?, we had 0.5 * 0.5, but in the end much less than 25% of stealing attempts ended with a tech.

Also, that's what the manual says.

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#4 2018-11-18 15:39:49

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,007

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

Also, new people who aren't really paying attention to the chat or forum or Discord may attempt using Diplomats to steal and keep failing because there is nothing in the official help that says "no stealing".

This is not "changing". This is fixing and adjusting a feature to the values declared in the manual.

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#5 2018-11-18 16:12:28

fran
Player
Posts: 181

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

People who are not paying attention lose. Law of fran.

BTW, if it's about people's attention, I recommend installing another couple of LT42 channels on another couple of discord servers or comparable obscure software, deciding game issues ad hoc with whomever is randomly there. That's your best bet to secure people's attention.

Last edited by fran (2018-11-18 16:33:36)

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#6 2018-11-18 17:30:39

Wahazar
Administrator
Posts: 232

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

Either fix stealing by spies or enable advances trade.

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#7 2018-11-18 17:42:32

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,007

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

fran wrote:

BTW, if it's about people's attention, I recommend installing another couple of LT42 channels on another couple of discord servers or comparable obscure software, deciding game issues ad hoc with whomever is randomly there. That's your best bet to secure people's attention.

Thank you for your most kind, thought-through and constructive contribution. It has been noted and will be conidered at the earliest possible opportunity.

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#8 2018-11-22 09:49:57

Wahazar
Administrator
Posts: 232

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

Well, are there any final conclusions? How to fix tech trade in LT42?

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#9 2018-11-22 10:23:02

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,007

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

It seems Wahazar and I are for fixing it, Wieder and Fran are against it. Anybody else? Speak now or forever shut your piece.

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#10 2018-11-22 12:43:32

Wahazar
Administrator
Posts: 232

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

The question is not "to fix or not to fix" - such game breaking bug like lack of tech exchange must to be fixed beyond argument.
The question was - how to fix.

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#11 2018-11-22 13:46:37

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,007

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

Obviously some people think it is not game breaking.

And I do agree: it is not "game breaking". A lot of LT games had no tech exchange whatsoever. But then the whole idea of diplomats is more or less useless.

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#12 2018-11-22 19:38:09

fran
Player
Posts: 181

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

Having workers capturable in this ruleset is "game breaking".
Tech trading yes or no is not "game breaking" because it is the same for everyone.

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#13 2018-11-22 22:53:19

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,007

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

How is having capturable workers not same for everyone?

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#14 2018-11-22 23:57:10

Wahazar
Administrator
Posts: 232

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

Corbeau wrote:

How is having capturable workers not same for everyone?

fran complains, that not everyone had opportunity cannibalize idlers - he was about to eat one, but prey awake and run away.

BTW worker:warrior price is 4:1, is it by design or you forgot to change workers price accordingly?

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#15 2018-11-23 00:17:52

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,007

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

Well... Worker is a highly useful unit that, if ran correctly, can make a lot of difference throughout the game. While Warriors are just a bunch of hoodlums running around causing trouble and are best replaced at he earliest possible opportunity.

That said, with other military units being much cheaper, maybe Workers should be a bit cheaper, too. Maybe. To be considered.

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#16 2018-11-23 09:43:05

Wahazar
Administrator
Posts: 232

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

Corbeau wrote:

That said, with other military units being much cheaper, maybe Workers should be a bit cheaper, too. Maybe. To be considered.

The main reason of fran complaints was, that some players were able to capture idlers workers (at the price of 5 shields), whereas other ones were unlucky, especially fran, who was just about to capture idler's workers, but meanwhile this particular idler was assigned to the new player.
BTW I wondered if it is OK to cannibalize idlers and asked about it on discord, but there were no contradictions when - seems fran changed his mind when jwrober get idler near him smile

Back to topic: In my opinion using diplomats for tech exchange is weird and not handy, however it have some positive elements, thus it is worth to test this idea.
It is not a ranked play, so please all stop whining about any minor setup changes. Especially hysteria about changing unwaittime (during first few turns) was pretty pathetic...

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#17 2018-11-23 10:27:53

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,007

Re: An unusual settings change after the start, opinions and objections?

Well, in a game with no fixed alliances, it's actually more about your ability and luck with acquiring allies - thus, diplomacy - than the issue of a few free units.

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