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wieder

Administrator

Posts: 1,863

The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

This is the first revision of this list. If you find any errors or something that's missing, please comment or send me a message and I'll fix it here on one place.

Changes to the previous games/LT32:

- Restrictinfra is OFF meaning that you can use roads on the enemy territory

- Production and trade improvements (markets, banks, factories, etc) giving +50% bonus instead of just 25%

- No changes to libararies, universities etc. They still give you only 25% and those were not changed like production and trade improvements

- Tech trading enabled (should be enabled already) No losing tech while trading / stealing unless going to negative bulbs

- 25% cost for trading tech: Getting a free tech without enough bulbs to cover that 25% cost would result with a loss of a random tech

- 25% cost for trading gold meaning that you can send gold to another player but 25% of that will be lost

- Tired attack is ON. Meaning that if you have 2/3 moves left when attacking you get only 2/3 of the attack power your unit normally has

- You can do terraforming with Engineers (explosives) meaning that you can turn ocean into land, the other way around or make several other changes to the terrain with the engineers

- City trading is OFF

- You can capture workers, settlers and migrant. If the help says that the current unit can capture a capturable unit, you will gain the control of the capturable unit instead of destroying it

- cruise missiles have 18 moves instead if 36 but only 9 before the invention of advanced flight

- Building fanatics no longer takes population. Fanatics is a reasonably powerful unit that can be only built by a fundamental nation

- workers gain experience at a considerably slower rate: veteran_work_raise_chance = 8, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 0 meaning that a green one has 8% change of getting a promotion, a v worker has a 5% chance and so on

- there is *no* rapture growth, only increased trade from celebrating cities

The Wonders added to this game

Small wonder: "A.Smith's Trading Co." with cost of 300
City improvements which would normally have an upkeep of 1 are free of upkeep, for all your cities on the same continent

Small wonder: "Leonardo's Workshop" with cost of 300
Upgrades two obsolete units per game turn

Small wonder: "Marco Polo's Embassy" with cost of 1000
Increases trade output by 40% in all cities on the same continent.

Small wonder: "Michelangelo's Chapel" with cost of 800
Counts as having a Cathedral in each of your cities on the same  continent. This makes 3 unhappy citizens content in each city; however, it does not affect citizens made unhappy by military activity. The discovery of Theology increases the effect of a Cathedral, making an additional unhappy citizen content. The discovery of Communism lessens the effect of a Cathedral, reducing by one  the number of unhappy citizens made content.

Some extremely important rules you should know as a new player to Longturn games even while they are not really changes

- The citymindist is 5 meaning that you must have at least 4 tiles (any direction) between the cities

- Vision and movement is multiplied by 3 meaning that you can move 3x as far in one turn as you could have with the original ruleset

- Cities have a greater working area compared to the vanilla ruleset

- Every player can build the small wonders. But you only can build one of each type / nation. You you build for example 2 Colossus wonders, you will lose the first one. However you can build as many different small wonders as you wish.

- The triremes can't travel on the rivers even while that was proposed

Nimrod

Player

From: Montreal, Canada

Posts: 58

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

Nice summary, Wieder ! Thanks for posting this.

Only one of these was a suprise to me: the "tired attack is ON" setting, which I've never seen before. Good to know!

P.S. Trireme travel was used on several GT games in the past. A potentially powerful thing which can lead to nasty surprises. Probably best that it's turned off in this game.

---

========================
"Shhh ! I'm hunting wabbitts ... "
                  NIMROD
========================

maho

Player

Posts: 161

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

Thanks for summary. I was noticed about some "new" features like capturing from it .

Question about small wonders: what happends when I conquer city with small wonder I already have?

mmm2

Player

Posts: 608

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

Thanks Wieder! I was unaware of some of this stuff! It is very useful.. These new rule changes should bring about some interesting new strategies especially with alliances..

vidlius

Player

Posts: 23

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

I was told there is no trade routes and no effect for caravans entering marketplace, ie; no one time gold/science. This is correct?

wieder

Administrator

Posts: 1,863

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

This is true. The trade routes are disabled in the Longturn games because players would get too much advantage from building caravans and moving them into far away locations.

You can confirm this from your client. Go to Menu - Options - Remote Server  and from there select the Economic tab. From there you can see that the minimum distance for trade routes is set to 999.

You should also notice that caravans can't move on tiles without roads, rails or rivers. You can move them by ship and move them from ship to ship I suppose, but not on terrain without any of those. Also, caravans move only 3 tiles / turn even while they are moving on roads. A green warrior for example moves 9 tiles on a road but a caravan can only move 3.

For what are the caravans used for? For building wonders or small wonders. It would tage ages to wait for a one city to produce a wonder so it's easier to build several caravans and move them into that one city.

vidlius

Player

Posts: 23

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

Hrm, thanks.

I was aware of most of that, the civ2/3 stuff about caravan movement, I just didn't realize about caravans having no trade value at all. Trade routes being off I think I knew, but no one-time bonuses I wanted to be sure about. That's an important one, it means I'll have to find some other goal to aspire to.

Small wonders everyone can build, almost no options for trade. There isn't much to do for a mostly peaceful player. Great wonders perhaps? Gold accumulation/ Wealth building? Hrm.

edrim

Ganoes Paran

Posts: 479

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

There isn't much to do for a mostly peaceful player.

Peaceful player can die in a glory:)

vidlius

Player

Posts: 23

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

who says I'll die? lol.

Corbeau

Administrator

Posts: 1,025

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

Peaceful doesn't necessarily mean pacifist

edrim

Ganoes Paran

Posts: 479

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

who says I'll die? lol.

who says you will die in glory? lol.

vidlius

Player

Posts: 23

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

Ok, another question.

Happiness and field units. Bardos ruleset had field unit unhappiness for all governments, it is looking like this doesn't apply to despotism in this game. Monarchy and republic too?

Corbeau

Administrator

Posts: 1,025

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

- Cities have a greater working area compared to the vanilla ruleset

I was going to ask this sooner, but kept slipping my mind. How exactly did you do this? A while ago I asked about this and someone (don't remember who nor where) said it takes changing the code.

Corbeau

Administrator

Posts: 1,025

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

- 25% cost for trading tech: Getting a free tech without enough bulbs to cover that 25% cost would result with a loss of a random tech

I just received some tech and, as a result, have -19 (that's a "minus") bulbs. However, no tech lost. Any explanation?

wieder

Administrator

Posts: 1,863

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

The random tech will be lost at the tc. Never immediately. It seems that it's possible to cover the negative bulbs at the tc without losing any techs but you really can't count on that. I've seen cases where for example -1 bulbs didn't result lost techs at the tc but also cases where the same -1 bulbs resulted with a lost tech.

This is also a good moment to point out that siege units can't be moved anywhere without roads (or a ship) since they are native to no terrain. Not even rivers will do the trick. You need roads. This was on the game chat but in case someone didn't pick it from there, here it's again.

It's possible that the ruleset has some surprises. This has also happened in the past games and it's possible that no one really knows beforehand what those surprises are. Changing stuff isn't always that straight forward.

Corbeau

Administrator

Posts: 1,025

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

So, to make it clear, you lose *one* tech regardless whether you have -1 or -200 bulbs? And then, what, counter moves to zero?

wieder

Administrator

Posts: 1,863

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

Yeah, just one tech and at the tc.

Once you have lost that one tech, the bulbs counter returns to zero. No matter how many negative bulbs you had. You can use this by receiving all the techs you need in one huge transfer and getting an insane amount of negative bulbs that will have just the same effect as having only a small amount of negative bulbs. Of course if you are in Monarchy and you lose that tech, there will be at least one turn of anarchy. Not two if I remember correctly. While in anarchy you can try getting monarchy back but you never know what tech you will lose at the next tc.

As a bonus there is a small chance that you won't lose any techs with -1 bulbs but you probably will lose one.

vidlius

Player

Posts: 23

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

I think I figured out the field unhappiness. Its hidden in the text file bardo did up. Cities can apparently support x field units based on how many free units they get and a city@ size 8 doubles it. AFAIK from what I read.

vidlius

Player

Posts: 23

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

Correction, it adds two at city size, not doubled.

Corbeau

Administrator

Posts: 1,025

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

Is there a summary about how governments work? The help/manual isn't all that revealing.

bamskamp

Player

Posts: 28

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

Search the forums:

http://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?id=150

Corbeau

Administrator

Posts: 1,025

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

So that is the current ruleset? Ok, thanks.

Just curious, everything in that table is clear except one thing: unit upkeep under Republic says "shield + gold". Does that mean what is seems it means?

edrim

Ganoes Paran

Posts: 479

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

So that is the current ruleset? Ok, thanks.

Just curious, everything in that table is clear except one thing: unit upkeep under Republic says "shield + gold". Does that mean what is seems it means?

I would say current ruleset is here: https://github.com/longturn/games/tree/ … /data/LT33

There are (in bamskamp post) ruleset writing and explanation of changes in LTeX23 but we have changed it many times since LTeX23.

Joris

Player

Posts: 23

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

Here's a change. Cannons are not veterans when build in cities with barracks.

vidlius

Player

Posts: 23

Re: The list of changes to the ruleset LT33 is using

I would assume inadvertent bug from making cannons their own unit type for special artillery rules, bombard and movement rules. Barracks probably coded to work only with infantry?