LT49 to start in few weeks

Post by **wieder** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:02 pm

Team game, propose the number of teams.

The exact start date is to be announced.

kevin551 · Post by **kevin551** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:50 pm

Well assuming this game doesn't start until after the summer. I'm in.
Although from the lack of activity on this website it looks like the game will be just the East Germans, vs the Pirates, vs a spambot called Meldcemo.

The number of teams should be an even number.
The worst decision of LT45 was to start a team game with 5 teams.
This led to an alliance of 3, one of whom was bound to win the game, before the game even started.

The second worst decision of LT45 was secret captains.

Post by **wieder** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:21 pm

Currently it's proposed that there are two teams and the teams are randomized. The game should start as soon as we get a reasonable number of players but not before July 15th. 4 teams could also be considered but 2 teams is what's now the most popular option. With random teams there will be no captains.

kamBLR · Post by **kamBLR** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:22 am

I suggest 4 continents, 4 teams with a small amount of small islands.

Dim · Post by **Dim** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:47 am

In this game will be a fixed size of the area processed by cities or growing?

Post by **wieder** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:52 pm

The cities will have a fixed working area since this is a more traditional game.

Dim · Post by **Dim** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:20 pm

Fine. I would like to participate in the game. But I forgot my password (((. I don’t want to change my nickname. What should I do?

kevin551 · Post by **kevin551** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:57 pm

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Okay. Looks like there are a few more players who will actually play. After 798 turns of the test game 6 players had logged on. I would far rather play a 3 vs 3 game with these 6, than start an 18 player game with 12 idlers.

I won't be able to play for the next two weeks, so if the game starts before then please delegate my nation.

mmm2 · Post by **mmm2** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:13 am

Hi wieder, could you make new test game with smaller islands? There was a bit too much land. What is setting to change, landmass? or is there also tileperplayer setting for the island generator...?

Zamolxis · Post by **Zamolxis** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:53 am

I installed LT49 ruleset on my local machine to test different aspects of the game; but my cities can't grow based on rapture effect - they celebrate and nothing more (no unhappy citizens, at least one food plus, republic or democracy); what is wrong?
thanks

Zamolxis · Post by **Zamolxis** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:49 am

I have nothing to say about what kind of team game is, if we all are agree.
I still need an answer to my problem:

I installed LT49 ruleset on my local machine to test different aspects of the game; but my cities can't grow based on rapture effect - they celebrate and nothing more (no unhappy citizens, at least one food plus, republic or democracy); what is wrong?
thanks

Post by **wieder** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:39 pm

Ok, let's test with smaller islands. Or we could use citymindist 5 that will effectively make the islands "smaller" by allowing less cities to be built. I'll start a new test in few hours. After some testing on a local machine. You can also suggest map settings. That stuff is on LT49.serv file on git.

https://github.com/longturn/games/commits/master/LT49

However I don't really understand the FFA team game. How would you want to decide the teams if the game would be FFA (even with all the players in the same team) after some time? I'm also not that excited about editing the save file. This is the first time I'm doing most of the server side stuff and I would like to keep it as simple as possible.

I'm sending today some verification mails to some players who are new to longturn games. If you are an old player (who I remember) or appear active on the forum/discord, the chances are you will not get extra confirmation mail.

If you are uncertain, you can also reply here and confirm you are an active player and want to play.

I'll probably do random teams and post the teams here for everyone to see if they seem ok enough.

About rapture.... We don't usually have rapture growth enabled on longturn.net games and LT49 is not an exception. Instead the cities can grow reasonably fast with food. This is possible with the granary sizes LT49 has.

This time we also have no tech trading. No techs can be received by conquering cities and every team member (or player) need to make all the techs he/she wants. This makes the game highly competitive and also makes it a great opportunity to learn from your teammates. The more experienced players will do better if they give some tips, pointers and advice to those who do not know how to play or are do not yet know all the tricks and strategies

Sounds hard with no tech trading? There are two things making it less hard. First, LT49 has tech leakage. This means that the techs will become cheaper once anyone gets them. With 20 players in a game one player getting a tech would make it to cost 5% less for everyone else. 10 players getting a tech would make it to cost 50% less for everyone. And the last one getting it would be getting it with a 95% discount. This allows nice strategies for the early game. However, letting the others to do the hard work may result with some trouble in the lat game so it's not that easy

The second option is trying to steal the techs. This is probably not too useful in the early game since the techs are very hard to steal. There is a 8% chance you will succeed in stealing and that's independent of base diplo/spy chance. Just remember that if you steal in the late game, it's mots likely best not to choose what tech you will try to get. Stealing any tech (the target nation has) will have a 8% chance for succeeding. However if you choose a certain tech the chance will be 0.08*0.08 making it more like winning in the lottery. That's a chance of 0.0064 or 0.64% instead of 8%.

Zamolxis · Post by **Zamolxis** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:22 pm

Thanks for the reply.
I saw some other deviations from the documentation integrated in the game, but this one seemed gross to me. Now it's easier to understand.

xandr · Post by **xandr** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:29 pm

kevin551 wrote:The second worst decision of LT45 was secret captains.

What's wrong with captains? Seems that can yield better balanced teams? Captains don't have to be secret, I actually don't know what was the purpose of secrecy, but I didn't notice it hurting either.

Post by **wieder** » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:19 pm

Last time not every captain wanted to be public. If we can get two captains willing to give me list of players, we can do the captains.

mmm2 · Post by **mmm2** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:29 pm

hi wieder, i am going to be playing maho-style.. count me as weakest player if u are trying to balance teams.

wieder wrote:Last time not every captain wanted to be public. If we can get two captains willing to give me list of players, we can do the captains.

kevin551 · Post by **kevin551** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:08 pm

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I am happy to be a captain. I have no problem with the idea of some players choosing the teams.
The captain does not have to have any responsibility after the choosing.
If the team want to choose a leader, they can do that after the team has been chosen.
The entire process should be transparent. Every player should know who the captains are, and what decisions have been made before the game starts.

I do not want to play in another game with secret captains.
A secret process only benefits the 'evil' players who want to keep their machinations hidden.

Post by **wieder** » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:35 am

ok cool. Maybe kevin and cgalik can be captains and choose the teams? I'll post the confirmed players list (including those who have joined on http://forum.longturn.net/viewtopic.php?id=1237) later today. I'll use the same python app for the process and will release the teams after shortly afterwards.

It's maybe best if both captains will send the players list to me in private and only publish them after the teams have been made. That way the captain makling the list last will not get advantage by knowing who the other captain wanted to be on the team. The process should be transparent by releasing the lists after making the teams and before launching the game.

I agree that the secret captains was not that great decision but for that particular team game we simply didn't have enough people who wanted to make the pics. In the future we will ask caprtains first and if there are not enough of them, there will be less teams or the teams will be random. If the game is going to be a team game.

What it comes to game specific rules, they will be similar to what the last team game had. The replacement players need to be accepted by the other team or the team can delegate more than the normal limits allow.