Tech stealing, let's hear opinions

Post by **wieder** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:12 pm

The current setup has 50% base chance for diplomats/spies to succeed and 12% chance for them to succeed stealing meaning that the actual chance to steal is 6%. This was made possible with a new patch.

Here is why it was planned to be like that:

Stealing should be so hard that it wouldn't make sense to try tech trading that way. Between the teams. But it should be possible for the failing teams to try something so that the game wouldn't be decided for sure. So this is also a balancing issue.

We can turn of stealing completely or use some other value for it. Let me know what do you think.

cgalik · Post by **cgalik** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:17 pm

I think should turn off stealing completely for multi-team game. In the past it has been used to "trade" techs between teams. If tech trading between teams was enabled, then tech stealing would be ok to have stealing enabled. Just my opinion.

Post by **Corbeau** » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:40 pm

Actually, I see this as a valid method for tech trading. Not free and much easier with some level of cooperation than if it's hostile. Just the way it should be.

cgalik · Post by **cgalik** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:06 pm

Then two teams working together can trade techs, but someone else trying to steal their techs will be tough to do because of war? That is not the way it should be. 0% is best. Or higher percentage chance with tech trading between teams enabled.

I think wieder has proposed 6% or 3%. Both are better than 12%, with the latter being 3% better than the former.

Post by **Corbeau** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:29 pm

cgalik wrote: That is not the way it should be. 0% is best.

Why?

Post by **wieder** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:31 pm

At what stage would it be useful to use 16 (12% / 6%) or 32 (6% / 3%) diplomats, on average, for trading one tech? Especially when this one tech would be a random one.

Maybe in the late game, but it would also require massive coordination so that the stealing party would get just the needed one.

fran · Post by **fran** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:56 pm

wieder wrote: But it should be possible for the failing teams to try something so that the game wouldn't be decided for sure.

That is not working, because the "winning" party can produce more diplos as defenders than the "failing" one.

But there are more important things to abolish, for example "Darwin's Voyage" and other stuff that gives the winning party a bonus for being the winning party, which is pointless, obviously.

cgalik · Post by **cgalik** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:29 pm

Corbeau wrote:
cgalik wrote: That is not the way it should be. 0% is best.
Why?

I said it already... I think for multi-team games (greater than 2) with tech trading between teams disabled, tech stealing should also be disabled, else 2 teams working together can "trade" techs.

Post by **Corbeau** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:56 pm

Yes, I understand that. But why is this bad?

Post by **wieder** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:23 pm

Tech trading is bad since it allows two or more teams to combine the research effort while the others may not be able to do that because of several reasons. The game is also set up so that it will not end too fast if there is no tech trading.

Now the actual question is if this setup can or can't be used for tech trading?

Post by **Corbeau** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:42 pm

wieder wrote:Tech trading is bad since it allows two or more teams to combine the research effort while the others may not be able to do that because of several reasons.

Why would that be?

This is a speculation. You are presuming a very specific game flow and limiting possibilities.

The game is also set up so that it will not end too fast if there is no tech trading.

This is a matter of putting one number into server settings.

Post by **wieder** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:26 pm

I should have said that tech trading with units is bad if the plan is to create a game where there is no tech trading. It wouldn't be bad if the idea would be creating a game where tech trading between the teams would be allowed.

Post by **Corbeau** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:13 pm

wieder wrote:I should have said that tech trading with units is bad if the plan is to create a game where there is no tech trading. It wouldn't be bad if the idea would be creating a game where tech trading between the teams would be allowed.

Post by **Corbeau** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:26 am

Livius wrote:I opt to enable tech stealing. It just makes sense as technology would be in the city to loot.

"Tech stealing" is different from "tech conquering". The former is using diplomats. And I think the latter is disabled completely.

Although, giving it something like 20-25% chance would be reasonable, if its' possible.