Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

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Hans_Lemurson
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Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Post by Hans_Lemurson »

Archers, given the experimental Bombardment ability in this game, are a handy unit, and very different than most others in the game.

Gunpowder makes them go obsolete and there is no replacement unit with the Bombard ability. :(

In truth their bombard power was too weak to be of any real importance, and mainly were useful as Scouts, but I think their obsolescence is a bit of an oversight.
Corbeau
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Post by Corbeau »

Well, giving them the Bombarder flag and not giving it to no other unit was a "compromise" that basically broke common sense. For the record, Iw as against it :)
wieder
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Post by wieder »

The bombardment ability of the archers is removed for the future games.
wieder
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Post by wieder »

Then again while it didn't work out it was a nice experiment and now we know (for sure:) the downside of that kind of ability for an early unit.
jwrober
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Post by jwrober »

What was the downside of archer bombard?
wieder
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Post by wieder »

The downside was the ability to get info from the defenders without a certainty to lose the unit investigating the city. This may sound like not that big deal but it can be really effective if you know what you are doing.
Corbeau
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Post by Corbeau »

Not a downside in my view.
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cgalik
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Post by cgalik »

Too big of an upside is my view, big game change. (fun for sure, but probably too much info)
Corbeau
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Post by Corbeau »

Well, compared to diplomats, partial risk for partial information. Seems legit.

Also, keeping secret the number of units in a city is an illusion and doesn't really make sense. You can choose to think that it does, it's a computer game after all, you can choose anything you want. But there is more reason for not being able to keep it a secret.

Yes, it's a big change from what people got used to over the years, and that's the main problem. It's hard to adapt to a big change. But then, again, it can be argued that it is a change for the better.
Last edited by Corbeau on Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wahazar
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Post by Wahazar »

Corbeau wrote:Well, compared to diplomats, partial risk for partial information. Seems legit.
I second this - diplomat reveal full information including buildings, production etc.
Additionally, it is not possible to bombard from aboard - you need to unload unit first, thus trireme recon raid argument, held in other thread, was invalid.
Corbeau
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Post by Corbeau »

Oh, trireme recon is valid. Triremes can move through rivers, so bring an archer on a trireme, attack, load back, move trireme. Still, needs specific terrain - city next to a river tile - and is perfectly realistic and eligible.
Wahazar
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Post by Wahazar »

Corbeau wrote:Oh, trireme recon is valid. Triremes can move through rivers, so bring an archer on a trireme, attack, load back, move trireme. Still, needs specific terrain - city next to a river tile - and is perfectly realistic and eligible.
No, it isn't. Bombardent flag code assume that unit is airborne and transported on carrier, see:
http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.ph ... 350#p99458
I tested it during implementation of artillery turrets: http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.ph ... 430#p99472 - no bombardment even if on native tile, while loaded.
There is appropriate warning message if you trying to do this.
Corbeau
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Post by Corbeau »

Erm... Yes, unload it first, attack, reload it without moving. Unless I'm wrong, loading is possible even with 0 moves left.

Isn't it?
Wahazar
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Post by Wahazar »

Corbeau wrote:Erm... Yes, unload it first, attack, reload it without moving. Unless I'm wrong, loading is possible even with 0 moves left.
You are right, I forgot that on land it is possible to load/unload on-site.
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