Pollution and Global Warming

cgalik · Post by **cgalik** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:02 pm

Is there any settings to turn down Global Warming? It seems too drastic when it happens. When it gets to around 50% it affects every single possible tile in the game.

I don't know if there are any settings for it, but I'd say turn it down by 50%.

Anyone know if there are knobs for this?

Post by **Corbeau** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:34 pm

I'd say that's pretty realistic. The situation where chance of GW event goes above 50% is the result of drastic pollution (because if it grew 1% each turn it would very unlikely ever get to 50%). And drastic pollution causes drastic Global Warming.

cgalik · Post by **cgalik** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:32 pm

Corbeau, weren't you complaining that every LT game seems to end in GW? You want to just keep it that way?

Post by **Corbeau** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:04 pm

Global warming is a logical consequence of some players' actions. In this regard, it works perfectly. The fact that I hate it doesn't change the fact that it can actually be avoided very easily. The GW in LT41 was exclusively one player's fault.

Post by **wieder** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:24 pm

We could reduce the costs of less polluting power plants.

Caedo · Post by **Caedo** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:20 pm

Corbeau wrote:The GW in LT41 was exclusively one player's fault.

I didn't play in that game (and I probably won't be playing in this one), but unless that player was one of the most powerful nations in the game, I really think that's something that shouldn't happen. And unless the rest of the players just didn't care and let it happen when they could've done something against it, that would point to the game balance being off.

Post by **Corbeau** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:42 pm

Yes, he had the best production (or 2nd best, i'm not sure, anyway, near the top). And that's why other players didn't do something about that immediately. But anyway, he got what was coming to him

fran · Post by **fran** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:22 pm

cgalik wrote:Is there any settings to turn down Global Warming? It seems too drastic when it happens. When it gets to around 50% it affects every single possible tile in the game.

I don't know if there are any settings for it, but I'd say turn it down by 50%.

It's there to be drastic. There is no point about having GW if it can't influence the game, e.g. give a drawback to the leading player(s).
That said, state of the discussion after LT40 was, that GW as is now only affects land tiles, so experienced players can evade the consequences if they can build coastal cities. As long as pollution is not on ocean tiles, or GW is not destructing harbors and other improvements that work on ocean tiles, IMO it's broken and could be turned off.
That said, this is not the right point in time to discuss the ruleset of LT44. ATM, there is not even a new directory for an LT44 ruleset on github.
LT44 should be started with LT43 ruleset, and should be started soon. Not keeping the announced date is a probable way of creating idlers from the start.

cgalik · Post by **cgalik** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:26 pm

I agree the one player who purposely didn't clean up only had like I'd estimate 10-15% of the land. I too don't think that person should be able to *quickly* destroy the whole world. I'm just thinking it should be slowed down a bit. That one player was the leader in trade and research so I'm guessing it was used as a way to hurt others who are behind them to slow down their progress. It almost worked and I wasn't able to attack them.

My ideal solution would be to keep power plants polluting, but when GW of 50% happens, it should only do something lik half the land tiles, instead it probably did half of all the tiles, but maybe because LT41 was an island game it was even worse?

Post by **Corbeau** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:18 pm

fran wrote:That said, state of the discussion after LT40 was, that GW as is now only affects land tiles, so experienced players can evade the consequences if they can build coastal cities. As long as pollution is not on ocean tiles, or GW is not destructing harbors and other improvements that work on ocean tiles, IMO it's broken and could be turned off.

In my view, ocean tiles are too resourceful in the late game. If you ask me, Offshore Platform should be removed from the game. Instead, make something like a Port Terminal that adds one more trade to each ocean tile. (I wrote this somewhere, not sure if her or on Discord.)

That said, this is not the right point in time to discuss the ruleset of LT44. ATM, there is not even a new directory for an LT44 ruleset on github.
LT44 should be started with LT43 ruleset, and should be started soon. Not keeping the announced date is a probable way of creating idlers from the start.

It's always the right time to discuss stuff like this

Maybe not in order to implement it in a game that should start tomorrow, but discuss it, yes

And I believe it has been shown that the strategy to deliberately induce GW in order to weaken others is a failure. In the end, he damaged all others because he kept his tiles crippled for a lnog time, and when the GW came on, it affected everybody the same.

Post by **wieder** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:37 pm

LT44 will have cheaper solar plants etc. so that it will make sense to build that stuff.

Post by **Corbeau** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:12 pm

Preventing GW should be a reason enough. Every benefit should have a downside. Don't make the game too cheap. It's all about making unfavourable decisions.

Momo · Post by **Momo** » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:16 am

Hi all, Momo speaking.

I agree with Corbeau; cheaper solar plants would break a big part of the egoism/altruism aspect of the game, which is one of the more interesting in multiplayer.