German States 1871

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:06 pm

Hi,

I already mentioned that I would like to play my scenario for LT 37 in another post.

"Hey,

I created a "German States 1871" scenario recently that can easily be downloaded with the modpack installer. There are 24 nations and each nation has 3 cities, with 3 phalanx, 2 workers and 1 horseman. The 3 cities are connected by road and there are two long distance roads via regia and via emperii. Techlevel is 0. The big rivers like Rhein and Elbe are composed of lake tiles and can therefore be navegated. There are 24 nations and we could play with teams of 2 or 3 players or a classic bellum omnium contra omnes without diplomacy.
Ferdi (XYZ)"

Bamskamp said that it is more suited fot "Other" games since it is unbalanced in his opinion. Though I agree that it is not as balanced as a complete new game, I still think it is pretty much balanced compared to other scenario games I created and therefore suited to play a fair game for fun.
We could use the GT 09 ruleset as proposed by Corbeau in another post. As he mentiones that it is pretty standard and straightforward.

You think we can get enough players?

Post by **wieder** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:09 am

This game could be run as a non ranking game. That only means there will be no ranking points people may get from regular games like LT36 or LT37. How was it, this is a 2.5 game, right? Longturn is currently set up for 2.5 games only because there were some possible conflicting settings with 2.3 and 2.5. This is my idea of how it if and akfaew may correct me about this.

This game could start a month or two after the next LT game has started. That way people who are not playing LT37 or LT38 (if setting up this takes time) would be able to try something else.

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:47 am

This game could be run as a non ranking game. That only means there will be no ranking points people may get from regular games like LT36 or LT37.

Of course, though this game is very balanced, it cant be compared to a regular game. If it works well, we could later move to more complex scenarios so I see it more as a proof of concept.

How was it, this is a 2.5 game, right? Longturn is currently set up for 2.5 games only because there were some possible conflicting settings with 2.3 and 2.5. This is my idea of how it if and akfaew may correct me about this.

I created it with Freeciv 2.5.3 so I guess it should work fine.

This game could start a month or two after the next LT game has started. That way people who are not playing LT37 or LT38 (if setting up this takes time) would be able to try something else.

For me it could start as soon as possible but that doesn't depend on me. The map is relatively small with lots of players so I don't think it will consume much play time (not much settling space, killing of many players in an early game stage or simply managing just a small territory) so in my opinion it could run parallel to other games.

Every player should be assigned a state randomly to prevent an argument on who gets the better nation.

We should still answer if we play a team game (2 or 3 players per team; randomly dispersed teams over the map or as a continues block) or sole survivor? I'm open to everything here.

The most difficult task will be getting 24 players to play. It would therefore be nice if scenario sceptical players would join in and if they loose the fun in it just switch to a passive defending mode. Im pretty realistic here.

Post by **wieder** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:23 pm

Maybe we could start this game around May or early June. As a game that requires less attention it might be good choice for May - August time period. How many turns you would guess this game would take? LT games typically take something like 150 turns.

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:11 pm

It's a continental map with 3 cities per player already in place. Therefore I would expect a relatively quick game.

Alternatively I can offer a new unconventional scenario about the Spanish Civil I created on Friday. 2 main factions Republicans and Nationalists (both with fully edited cities) fight with support of Italy/Germany/Portugal and the Soviet Union/International Brigades/Mexico(Diplos) over Spain. The support nations only have units in forts and airports but lots of firepower.
It could offer a quick and interesting reenactment of that conflict with straight action from the beginning paired with little need to invest much time. We would also need only 6 players.
You can download it here and see a preview pick of the map:

http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=794

I would make some changes to the map: making Portugal/France/Gibraltar unreachable land and give Mexico not only diplos but also troops maybe shuffle all other units.

However you decide! I'm happy about any game we play! So let me know!

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:34 pm

Since LT 36 seems to be over or at least in the loop. Can we prepone the German States game? Everyone one for himself, no caravans.

Post by **wieder** » Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:40 pm

Hi

I actually just proposed a schedule for German States. Not very soon but a bit later. Of course if people want to play the German States during the summer it's not a problem.

Here is the thread where I posted the proposition.

http://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?pid=6222#p6222

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Fri May 06, 2016 8:02 pm

I know I sound like a broken record but what about a scenario game for people who cant get enough and want some action right away while LT37 is still in the buildup phase and who can't wait for automn for the "German States 1871" game? I got a whole bunch of scenarios downloadable here: http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=809 and I even updated on a large scale the WWI scenario (not downloadable yet) We are having after all the 100 years jubilee... The game probably requieres too many players... So unless someone else has another preference I would suggest the "Colonial Africa 1895" game!?
Is it possible to play it very soon wieder? (If we get enough people to sign up of course).
Glad to hear some opinions!

Post by **wieder** » Sat May 07, 2016 11:30 am

Repeating is a good idea since almost nothing here on LT happens that fast

I'll talk with akfaew and if there are no problems I think we could open the signups for the "German States 1871" game. I'll also create a forum for the game. Maybe a forum for scenario games. The LW games are also on one forum.

I'm not sure how long it will take to get 24 players for a game like this so the starting date will depend on that. My guess is that it might start in early June if not too many people are away for the summer time on the northern hemisphere.

Post by **wieder** » Sat May 07, 2016 12:01 pm

Also, where was/is the ruleset/stuff for this "German States 1871" scenario?

I can't find if from my computer fro some reason while I think I downloaded it.

Actually, I found it:

http://civland.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1137

Do I understand correctly that the game is using 1x moves or did I miss something? Are ruleset files needed or available for it? I only found .sav file.

The LT games are usually run with 23h turns and using 3x moves is a tradition. Would that scenario work with that or with 2x moves? With 1x moves the games may become really slow.

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Sat May 07, 2016 12:39 pm

3 cities already built? Sounds like a painfully boring first two weeks.

You also start with a horseman and 3 phalanx

The map is pretty tight so it's more like a cage fight. If it is impossible to accept I can live with 3 settlers instead.
The WWI sceanrio has plenty of units, first rounds were the bloodiest when we played it at GT and following weeks felt like a bloody world war... If you seek more action thats an alternative although it requieres more role playing since players have hugely different nations and have to accept some house rules.

Yes, a scenario game cannot be ranking as it's not fair, according to how we perceive fairness.

Of course not and Im saying that being aware of that it is the most balanced scenario I made so far.

Did you play longturn before Sketlux? Are you aware of our modifications?

Unfortunately not, I played Greatturn back in the days

I don't know how to use modpacks, you'd need to explain how a scenario is different from a regular game, but other than that I see no obstacles.

Its not a modpack its only a map classified as scenario.

Also, where was/is the ruleset/stuff for this "German States 1871" scenario?

I didn't make one, I just edited a map with the map editor.

Im also open to alliance limit of 3 players or a a team game of 3 players per team or a complete bellum omnium contra omnes with no official diplomacy and only one winner -is it Prussia again?

Post by **wieder** » Fri May 13, 2016 2:20 pm

We would need to prepare a ruleset for this scenario because I believe that using a vanilla one would not do the trick. Maybe using a modified version of the LT37 ruleset would work for this map. The moves should be changed to 2x instead of 3x because of the map size. Also, since it's a scenario game, maybe the players would need to have 19th century techs to start with.

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Fri May 13, 2016 4:02 pm

We would need to prepare a ruleset for this scenario because I believe that using a vanilla one would not do the trick. Maybe using a modified version of the LT37 ruleset would work for this map. The moves should be changed to 2x instead of 3x because of the map size

Would be an option. I liked the civ2/3 ruleset or the one Corbeau proposed once and that we used for GT9. Citymindest 1 or 2 is probably necessary. Reducing the movement to 2 is good!

Also, since it's a scenario game, maybe the players would need to have 19th century techs to start with.

This one is tricky since it is a hybrid scenario melting normal game properties with scenario ones. It makes it somehow to similar to LT 37. Giving 19th century tech for realism reasons would also justify editing the cities but that woud cause huge inbalance. Giving tech would cut out the regionalism element I like at the beginning. If we want a real scenario we should do the whole trick and take WW1 (wich I completely changed and didnt publish yet) or the Colonial Africa scenario. Both have advantages:
-WWI is fully edited, therefore a beauty in itself
-Africa has a smaller amount of nations and smaller inbalance than WWI and the alliance system scheme I developed proofed very good in practice in G10.

A general remark if we dont have enough players amputating the map is to a certain extend always possible.

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:27 pm

The 28th of July 102 years ago started WWI. Maybe an incentive to start a scenario with the same name any time soon?

Temmikael · Post by **Temmikael** » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:27 pm

Poland drop out UEFA EC games. Soon our Polish friend come back to longturn game. I bet so much whit Poland....

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:23 pm

After the final start of LT 37 has a scenario a chance of being played again? We could start small as proof of concept with only few players.

Post by **wieder** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:49 pm

We could run a test game for that. However the map should (probably) be made to work with the LT37 ruleset. Reducing the moves to 2x would be relatively easy. The reason why I would prefer LT37 ruleset as the base is that there are lots of changes a multiplayer game needs. Or maybe not really need but changes that are already tested.

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:38 pm

Sure, new ruleset it is. What size, tech level and how many players? Inbalanced, balanced, team, role game? 2x moves would in most cases be better. Experienced showed scenario to be faster.

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:08 pm

Or lets keep it easy and just take the German States 1871 scenario as test game. I could alter the the appearance of the map superficially before the game starts to add the exploring and surprise element. I could also adapt the number of players by this.

This should be the newest version: http://forum.freeciv.org/f/download/file.php?id=501

In the unlikely event that we need more nations I have a newer version with more players.

Post by **wieder** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:28 pm

Some thoughts not in particular order...

The .sav file loads fine. The rulesetdir needs to be changed to the one used by LT37 or to a new one using LT37 as the base ruleset with some modifications. What do you think, would there be issues with that? The scenario is designed for the classic ruleset. Do you think there are some advances, unit costs or something else that would make the scenario too different? The 2x moves and stuff like that needs to be changed of course, but in addition to that?

Maybe the map should be revealed in the start since it's already available to those who know how to load the .save file.

The initial cities could be bigger and maybe the techs should also be on the 1870 level?

Maybe a team game... But then again that time period is about the unification of Germany. Maybe also this wouldn't be a ranked game. This kind of scenario also sounds like a role game. Would be something new to LT even while doing some role stuff is something some people do on ranked LT games

Planning this stuff will take at least few months since usually nothing at LT happens overnight

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:24 pm

You have a free hand with the ruleset! What you think is best! I'm anyways getting to know through a hard try and error process the current LT37 so I will hopeflly have learned something. The 2x move needs to come since its a rather small scenario.

I like the exploring element and since we don't know the exact player number amputation will anyhow come and change the map. I'm sure I can find a few hours to change the topography strong enough so that the incentive to explore the map is there. You will only have a medieval sense of where you are...

I think other scenarios are better suited to play with modern units and big cities. I want to have more primitive battles or medieval ones at least in the beginning.
Sure 1870 suggests otherwise but it was more for practical nation reasons.

A team game is a good thing (thinking of random 3 player teams) although a backstabbing-no-official diplomacy game where only one can be king is something worth considering.
Playing with a king unit is anyway worth considering...
But since I'm so indifferent in these points I even prefer a poll.

For fairness purpouses I would suggest anyways a random nation allocation since it's a fairer game than other scenarios I made.

Its one of my less role gamish scenarios ever. They tend to be fragile. GT Colonial Africa was hugely fun but was hard to manage since you had to intervene some times because people didn't know the rules or ignored them arbitrarily. (like giving tech to natives, forming forbidden alliances). So this one should be easy to handle.

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:27 pm

Im ready if you wanna proceed...

Post by **wieder** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:28 pm

The ruleset for LT37 doesn't seem to have any major bugs so we could proceed with this one.

Let's start by asking how many people would like to play a scenario game? You can reply to this thread.

Sketlux · Post by **Sketlux** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:52 pm