Idler

det0r · Post by **det0r** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:43 am

Deragh has not responded to any of my emails. Can you please delegate his nation to mmm2 or me?

Thanks

kevin551 · Post by **kevin551** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:01 am

Yes, I think we agreed that in these instances delegation would be manually done by the admin.
We also talked about the maximum delegation being a month, but haven't yet agreed how that endpoint occurs.
For example the delegated cities could just be transferred to the team.

elrik · Post by **elrik** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:40 am

same situation here. Its a while since iam trying to get any answer from Kes of Kobo and Hench. Can you please delegate them to someone else from our team? me and Kryon for example?

Archont · Post by **Archont** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:33 am

I have the same problem with chuck. So I request (if Xercise did not do it already) for a delegation to Xercise.

edrim · Post by **edrim** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:06 am

How are you taking them by idlers?
Only by dont replaying for emails?
I have one player in such situation that he is not replaying for my emails but i know he is not an idler, once they will not login for first turn or two you can start talking about your players as idlers. Check 48 hours for first login when game starts and then set delegation.
It is not sure that if player doesnt respond for emails he will not start play, you should ask them by emails before picking them if they are able to respond quickly:)

mmm2 · Post by **mmm2** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:58 am

for det0r team:
"deragh" --delegate to---> "mmm2"
"ankka8x" --delegate to--> "det0r"
"temmikael" --delegate to--> "mmm2"
"joris"--delegate to-->"det0r" (he is here, but may miss the first few turns, and doesn't check email often)
"ste" --delegate to --> "mmm2" (he plans on playing; i will only move for him if he hasn't moved after 3rd day of turn 0)

edrim · Post by **edrim** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:14 pm

mmm2 wrote:for det0r team:
"deragh" --delegate to---> "mmm2"
"ankka8x" --delegate to--> "det0r"
"temmikael" --delegate to--> "mmm2"
"joris"--delegate to-->"det0r" (he is here, but may miss the first few turns, and doesn't check email often)
"ste" --delegate to --> "mmm2" (he plans on playing; i will only move for him if he hasn't moved after 3rd day of turn 0)

lol, you are so funny, thank you for showing situation in such radicluos way:)

In other way it will be better to let delegation only for transfering cities to new owner. Like mmm2 shows it is stupid that two players will start game for all team, in short way we will take back to past and have one player teams who will stay 24h/day online.

Maybe we should abandon starting game now and start it after vacation days in October? Delegation lik this above is even not funny if you take a look at it in different way.

I think we should start thinking about delegation player if he is set to idle in ingame players menu.

mmm2 · Post by **mmm2** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:21 pm

"deragh" --delegate to---> "mmm2"
"ankka8x" --delegate to--> "det0r"
"temmikael" --delegate to--> "mmm2"
"joris"--delegate to-->"det0r" (he is here, but may miss the first few turns, and doesn't check email often)
"ste" --delegate to --> "mmm2" (he plans on playing; i will only move for him if he hasn't moved after 3rd day of turn 0)

edrim/akfaew

we have to add so many delegations, because our team is just unlucky that we have so many idlers/vacationing players... i think better to start even though it's vacationing season now? we must allow all teams to delegate, otherwise it will be lame if we have idlers..

edrim · Post by **edrim** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:30 pm

mmm2 wrote: we have to add so many delegations, because our team is just unlucky that we have so many idlers/vacationing players... i think better to start even though it's vacationing season now? we must allow all teams to delegate, otherwise it will be lame if we have idlers..

Every team has newcommers, it will be a war game from very start, i am not talking about you only, if Leaders are afraid that newcommers will not get theirs goals in start they should put them before front line.
Once again, i am not talking about your team mmm2, for me it is some kind of cheating, if rules was to take no expirenced players to teams, and now all of them are in delegation to 2 top players being picked it is something wrong.
Maybe we should exted time of first turn and everybody will check theirs emails, back from vacation, set delegations and all other stuff.
I am not going to set fake delegation only because i am afraid of first placements of cities.

To all of players:
Delegation was invented for players who are going to vacation, this game is longturn, when you lost a turn or two it is no big deal, it never was.
Every game in past was a topic that some of us tell - yes i am going to vacation and i will be back in two weeks, i am giving delegation to specyfic player.
Now when delegation form is exploited when some player are not able to defend or attack he is going to fake vacation and delegate to more expirenced player.
This situation came with every rule here, same like password sharing, spend 24h/day, mass alliances and all other stuff.
We have agreement and one came dont know about this agreement doing his exploit of agreement and after this every player do the same.

This is bad time for starting a game. Team games usually has many idlers and it was not big deal too (because every idler has bad influence of a team, and he is not easy meat like in FFA). Now when it is so pressure to win we lost our fun in game and starting to exploit everything, like they say: what is not prohibited it is allowed. I am against it and i am against exploit any of agreement we done in past.

I know it should be one who kick first exploiters but it is oing like: i will do little exploit nobody care, after that i will exploit little more, and after 30 steps nobody cares about this agreement at all and everybody do the same.

And again: i am not talking about det0rs team only, his situation shows this in distorting mirror, when he has only 3 active players out of 8, lol.

mmm2 · Post by **mmm2** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:31 pm

the delegation is a useful feature.

last game wieder was controlling wieder,vendicar,viznut, and sokrat - he made game great challenge for us and we lost because of his micromanaging the defenses of 4 players. if not for wieder, kryon would have easily won game and there would be no competition. we did not complain, instead we congratulated wieder for his excellent play... some games there are players that have much spare time and can control delegations like that. i don't think i will have much time in a month, and it's likely we could have an idling team and lose game fast.. i think delegation is nice feature.. in such a team game every team should have such player(s) that have spare time, because normally everyone will take break at some point in game, and sometimes miss 80% of game.

it is just the way it goes in long turn, that often it is not about skill, but about who is not on vacation or who happens to be the least busy with work, family ,etc...

kevin551 · Post by **kevin551** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:58 am

I agree with Edrim here - the situation with idlers is becoming ridiculous.
We need to sort this out asap. Preferably before the game starts.

I have been arguing for manual delegation for the last few weeks and now it seems I have opened up another loophole to be exploited.
My reason was specific. The website delegation was broken and a player on our team could not delegate personally before he went on holiday.

elrik · Post by **elrik** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:58 am

I agree with Edrim that it looks like a sick situation. I have now delegation from Hench but I am not very happy about it. It can't be like that, there was a reason for such teams.
Maybe we can start this game as it is now and set second one with less players?

Archont · Post by **Archont** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:42 am

It is indeed... strange situation and ridiculous a bit.

Well, I think everybody knew the LT32 will start in June or in the worst case in July and was able to include the risk of massive absences in his picking strategy.

However, eliminating a player before he managed to build a city just because he went on vacation would be awful maneuver.

edrim · Post by **edrim** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:31 am

mmm2 wrote:last game wieder was controlling wieder,vendicar,viznut, and sokrat - he made game great challenge for us and we lost because of his micromanaging the defenses of 4 players. if not for wieder, kryon would have easily won game and there would be no competition. we did not complain, instead we congratulated wieder for his excellent play...

LOL, thats what i call exploit bugs of system. After this excelent play wieder wasnt supposed to be in winner list?
If i wasnt be on chair i should go ROTFL but i am in work now:)
You make my day mmm2.
I can stop loughing, my eyes are crying.

When a player are not able to make his micromanagment of cities it is no big deal, he can do what he can, setting mass delegation only because some players need resources to win is sick and delegation system was not invented for this usage.

Akfaew: please set delegation in my team in a way:

Lord_P --> edrim
topyli --> edrim
chomwitt --> edrim
xandr --> edrim
brad --> edrim
elpollodiabolo --> edrim
mrsynical --> edrim
edrim --> mrsynical

They are all active players but they maybe make wrong moves and i need to move all of them in first turns (i hope i will be able to be online 24h/day and kill all my enemy neighbours). I hope if i am delegation to mrsynical he will be able to control all of my delegations.

This is sick guys, we are loosing our nice community soul.

Every team will have same idlers earlier or not, but it is not reason to go this way. If you have email from a team mamber that he is going to vacation paste it showing he is going out for specyfic time. If you think somebody will be idle wait and check if he is shy or idle and after it try to fix problem by manual delegation.

I know for new members my talking is stupid, they all think why i am trolling this thing in delegation, but we have similar to others path:
-first game: i will take delegation of player who is my friend but he is not even in ally with me and we have not met each other.
-next game: i will take more then two delegation in same time
-next game: i will take as many delegation as i can, no big deal i did it in past
-next game: i will take delegations before game starts, no matter if i will be enemy or ally in game because of geografical placement, it was done in team game so not big deal to do it in FFA
-next game: i will make some false accounts to have nearly unlimited boost when i have establish embassy with them and took theirs cities one by one
-next game: i am playing with 3 other players but we have 45 nations ingame
-next game: i am playing with myselfs, i dont know wich nation is enemy or ally

Can you look at this ladder and think where we are now? Delegation system is for people who are not able to connect to a game for some days (going to vacation or have busy week), once you are setting delegation because you will be not able to see game before 10:00 and 12:00 GMT is not why it was invented for.

Didnt all Leaders pick theirs players before contact them by emails? I did it, if Leaders didnt do it is theirs fault. You can talk that you have picked this player because it wasnt any more active players left, yes but you should have not more that everybody else of unactive players.

If you are placeing idlers on battle front taking in mind that you will control this player just after start, this is evil and should be excluded.

I think we should let manual delegation once player are on idle list (at least 3 turns) in team games, (or in this specyfic situation going out with sending email to a Leader that he is going to vacation, because delegation system was broken). In FFA games manual delegation by other player then owner of nation should be not allowed at any reason.

Post by **wieder** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:08 pm

mmm2 wrote:the delegation is a useful feature.

last game wieder was controlling wieder,vendicar,viznut, and sokrat - he made game great challenge for us and we lost because of his micromanaging the defenses of 4 players. if not for wieder, kryon would have easily won game and there would be no competition. we did not complain, instead we congratulated wieder for his excellent play... some games there are players that have much spare time and can control delegations like that.

Thanks

Actually, it wasn't quite like that.

I never played for viznut. I /took his nation because I was asked to test if the delegations were broken or not. They were broken and akfaew fixed that. I never moved a single move for viznut.

Sokrat was my first ally and I often played for him when he was away for a weekend or maybe twice for a full week. I really didn't do that much when I played his nation. Sure, we definitely talked about defending our nations but in the end I really didn't move his troops that much.

Vendicar was a different matter. He asked on the forum if someone would play his nation and when absolutely no one else agreed, I volunteered. No one complained about that beforehand. There was plenty of time for it. Then yeah, I definitely defended his nation, but there wasn't really that much micromanaging. There were many turns when I did all of Vendicar's moved in 15 minutes. Then again, sometimes I used more time for that. I really didn't want the delegation to be extended that much as it did, but what was I supposed to do when a player doesn't return?

In the end I didn't use Vendicar's troops to help the rest of the team with the war effort. In a way that may have contributed to your issues on the front. When I was keeping Vendicar's cities protected in an attempt to wait for the player to return, those cities became extremely hard for anyone to conquer.

And my own game? I just played my own game. Defending the cities didn't take that much micromanaging.

My time was mostly consumed by chatting and stuff. Yeah, stuff. Stuff matters.

But really, I played for 3 players at max and that happened only for short times. I was also trying to ask about what are the rules for that but no one really knew.

I'm happy to answer questions if you feel we got an unfair advantage because of this. But also please understand that I had probably a very different strategy compared to your team.

Post by **wieder** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:14 pm

Oh yeah, and about delegations general.

Because in LT32 dispersion=0 may result with some really nasty RTS moves, I strongly object any delegated moves during the first 46 hours of the game.

If the first turn is 3*23h, the last 23 should be enough for the delegated moves.

edrim · Post by **edrim** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:32 am

wieder wrote:Oh yeah, and about delegations general.

Because in LT32 dispersion=0 may result with some really nasty RTS moves, I strongly object any delegated moves during the first 46 hours of the game.

If the first turn is 3*23h, the last 23 should be enough for the delegated moves.

Damn, dispersion can be set to 100, but we still placeing players on spots we have taken, dispersion setting is uses in machine (algorithm) for placeing units in random way.
I dont think anybody will go so much to another player teritory to place a city. It will be lonely city with on enemy land this way. Do we have any spot on a map which is exposed to this type of situation? We are still humans, players can talk with each other not to set cities if they are worring about going on rivers to thirs terian.

mmm2 · Post by **mmm2** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:34 pm

edrim wrote: Akfaew: please set delegation in my team in a way:

Lord_P --> edrim
topyli --> edrim
chomwitt --> edrim
xandr --> edrim
brad --> edrim
elpollodiabolo --> edrim
mrsynical --> edrim
edrim --> mrsynical

if you think requests of kryon and det0r team are excessive, maybe we can put a cap on overrided delegations, such as 2?

I agree, it is kind of unfair that kryon already has best pick (especially with a first round pick with elrik in the last round), and now being able to effectively get 2 more first round picks in last round by way of overrided delegation. it will make game much more difficult for det0r team, but we welcome challenge... it would be helpful if we would also be able to get 2 overrided delegations too.

thanks,

mmm2

mmm2 · Post by **mmm2** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:44 pm

wieder wrote:Oh yeah, and about delegations general.

Because in LT32 dispersion=0 may result with some really nasty RTS moves, I strongly object any delegated moves during the first 46 hours of the game.

If the first turn is 3*23h, the last 23 should be enough for the delegated moves.

so if player has not moved for first 46 hours then we all agree that player should override delegation?
or maybe better is to make idler player miss turn 0, and then be allowed to delegate at turn 1. these kinds of details are really trivial though. main question is, will idlers be given manual override delegation. the answer seems to already be yes, since akfaew granted 2 manual overrides to request of kryon and one to request of det0r.

mmm2 · Post by **mmm2** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:48 pm

elrik wrote:I agree with Edrim that it looks like a sick situation. I have now delegation from Hench but I am not very happy about it. It can't be like that, there was a reason for such teams.
Maybe we can start this game as it is now and set second one with less players?

elrik, i saw hench login today... seems he is here at least for now..

kevin551 · Post by **kevin551** » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:14 pm

Here is a suggestion for ending the practice of long term delegation.

Maximum delegation of an idler is 7 turns.
People on vacation have to state when they will be back After that they become an idler with the 7 day limit.

Given that city trading is on, all cities except the capital can be passed to team mates. The capital city is still there in case the idler returns later.

I also suggest that the maximum number of manual overrides per team is set at 1. Just once for the entire game. (unless website delegation breaks down again.)