Ltex23B start/changes

terror · Post by **terror** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:08 pm

It couldnt be started today or yesterday but for sure it will start tomorrow:

Prominent features ( cool stuff

)

- based on civ2-3 ruleset

(*NEW setting - timeonserver ) - Time limit to stay on server ( default 60 minutes, you can log multiple times, but total for 60 mins, can be voted in game to change )

(*NEW setting roadbuild ) - time to turn change when road or rail might be build on unclaimed terriory or other player territory, default 4 hours

(*NEW setting cancelresearch ) - if you steal tech or get it from other players, and that is tech what are you researching then next tech you start with 0 bulbs researched

Major changes:
- bribing units is based on diplchance, failed bribe means player loose gold, and that gold goes to his opponent ( but soon there will be new setting bribechance - probably 60% )

Minor changes:
- City incite is 5 X
- Wonder changes to default civ2-3 - All removed except GreatLib ( cost 600), Isaac (800), Internet (3200), Manhattan (6400)
- Moved to small wonders Smith ( 600, doesnt affect all players and rest small wonders also), Copernicus (300), CureofCancer(1000),Darwin(300), Gardens(300),Bach(600),KingRichard(300), Mausoleum(300),Pyramids(200)
Shakespear(600),TempleofArtemis(200) - most of them are canceled by industralization, so if anyone would like skip techs like in lt30 he will skip factories too
- Factories restored to 50% shield output

- Paratroopers have range 30

- probably all commands to cast vote are disabled for real

terror · Post by **terror** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:15 pm

there are changes from civ2-3 rulest ( somehow its hard to find it by google, best is to use modpack-installer and read readme )
here are major changes
- No Rapture Grow (celebration only causes additional trade per tile, same than civ3). Foodbox readjusted to keep a constant city growth.
- Specialists output reduced to 2 (same that civ2). There are small-wonders that increase them to 3
- Road/Railroads can't be used in enemy territory. Unreachable units do not protect reachable ones.
-Settler cost is 2

TERRAIN:
--------
- Jungles receive +1 shield (1/1/0). Swamps can be irrigated for +1 food (to 2/0/0). Tundra can be mined for +1 shield (instead of irrigated) and roads gives +1 trade (up to 1/1/1).
- Deserts with a river receive 1 extra food from irrigation (to boost growth at terrains like Nile flood).
- Reduced food bonus by 1 to some Special resources: Oasis and Spice.
- Hills receive 1 shield for free, and +2 from mines, same than civ3, (was 0 and +3).
- Mountains give extra vision range. Cities can not be placed over Mountains. Land units starting the turn over a Mountain receive a -1 penalty to movement (this way it is not so good for cavalry to end the turn on mountains).
- Lake tiles receive for free +1 food (2/0/2), while Harbours and Offshore Platforms do not affect them. Lakes do not enable wonders that needs a coastal city.
- Deep oceans produce no food (1 food with Harbour). Offshore Platforms increase the production only if there is a buoy in the deep ocean tile.
- Jungles and Forests are not affected by Pollution nor by Global warming.

- Minimum city output = 1/0/0 (was 1/1/0). City central tile now produces +1 shield except at terrains that can be irrigated and mined at same time (to workaround this hardcoded effect).
As resultant, city central tile always increases by 1 the output of the original tile, once irrigated/mined/roaded (Compare CITY and MAX1 in next table).
So, no matter the tile where you place your city, you never waste any resource (for example, with default rules a city placed over bonused grassland was wasting the shield bonus).

- DEFENCE is halfed on all terrains
- Every City receives an inherent Defend_Bonus = +50% against Land units
- Every City with Pop>=8 receives an additional free Defend_Bonus = +50% against Land units, and against Sea/Trireme.
- Walls effect reduced from 200% to 100%, and cost reduced from 60 to 30.
The total city defense is similar to default ruleset, but here cities receive some wall bonus for free, and large cities receive an extra bonus, like in civ3

- Corruption by Distance is increased by 1 until The Corporation is researched by the player.
- Waste by Distance is increased by 1 until Trade is researched by the player.
( This penalty is negated by The Pyramids wonder, and the penalty dissapears for everybody when The Pyramids become obsolete.)
- Diplomats available with Alphabet (was Writing), and Migrants with Pottery, so every initial tech allows some unit or building.

and many many others

cgalik · Post by **cgalik** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:15 pm

A lot of changes here. It will be interesting to see how they play out. It will be fun.

Thanks to Terror & whoever else is working on these.

kevin551 · Post by **kevin551** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:53 am

Wow - I did not expect all these changes to appear so fast.
This is great.
The ruleset is called Civ2Civ3 and can be found here http://forum.freeciv.org/viewtopic.php?t=6330

I hope the Academy building and pre-fortress base are included. Both seem to be working well.

Joe9009 · Post by **Joe9009** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:16 pm

Question. The turn limit, will it kick you off after 60min or just not let you do anything more than observe? I ask only because I am still pretty new and I don't know alot of the other players. How do you get to know each other. It seem that the chat function is not used much. How do people talk with each other? I feel like I am playing in the dark, I am sure that this is because I don't yet know the ropes.

So it starts today?

terror · Post by **terror** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:38 pm

you can see how long you can stay on server by typing command /timeinfo

all players all on isles with another 1 player, so decide to cooperate or kill enemy fast, isles are close each other, triremas will reach them easily.
Tribal goverment gives +3 move so you can do deadly fast warriors.
Have fun

kingofnerds · Post by **kingofnerds** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:55 pm

Is it 60 minutes at a time, or 60 minutes per turn? I ask because sometimes I play via VNC on my phone, and if something comes up in the middle of moving, and I don't get back to it for a while, I would probably not remember to log out of the game, so if it was 60 minutes per turn, I would not be able to login later and finish my turn... If it is 60 minutes at a time, then I am perfectly fine with that.

kevin551 · Post by **kevin551** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:37 pm

The web site (forum.freeciv.org) I listed earlier with the details of the civ2civ3 ruleset is dead. Sorry.
You can download the readme for this ruleset at http://www.cazfi.net/freeciv/modinst/2. ... Civ2-3.txt

terror · Post by **terror** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:44 pm

kingofnerds - its 60 minutes per turn, not login. you can make poll to increase it in any time if you think its too short. but you dont need too logout if your connection hangs, you are disconnected in less than 30 seconds then by pingtimeout or something like that.
EDIT: seems I misunderstood you, you need to remember to close freeciv, or make some kungfu to force freeciv closing itself eg. after 40 mins, on linux there is command timeout -40m freeciv-client or many other ways available

kingofnerds · Post by **kingofnerds** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:24 pm

Ok, I guess I just need to remember to close the game before I close my VNC connection each time. my VNC server is a Headless server, so I can't just walk by it and notice that the game is still running.

bardo · Post by **bardo** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:03 am

I'm glad you are testing this ruleset, I hope it fits well the longturn gameplay.
I'll try to keep track of your changes to take them into account for future versions.
I have no much time now to play, but I wish I could observe how people play with this rules. Is there a way to get the savegames once you have finished?, I'm really curious to know the governments you choose, the prefered units, the first techs researched, and also to compare smallpox vs largepox strategies. I think largepox will dominate over time with this rules, but I'm not sure.

In my test with the civ2-3 version that you are using as base, I found that Communism could be a bit too powerful at large maps, specially if you retored 50% bonus for factories. I suggest to reduce the number of free unit under Communism to 3 per city (it was 6 at cities with pop> 8).
I also made a minor change to Corruption and Waste caused by governments, planed for next 2.4 version. The final result is:

Code: Select all

GOVERNMENTS:
------------
                  Anarch    Tribal    Despot    Monarc    Fundam    Republ    Democr    Federat   Commun   
Tax/Lux/Cie Rate  0         60        60        70        70        80        90        90        80       
Output per tile   -1(if>2)# -1(if>2)# -1(if>2)# 0         0         +1Trade   +1Trade   0         0        
Celebration Bonus (no -1)   (no -1)   (no -1)  (+1Trade)  0        (+1Trade) (+1Trade) (+1Trade)  0        
                                                                                       
Unit Upkeep       Shield    Shield    Gold      Gold      Gold      Sh+Gd     Gold      Gold      Shield   
Free Units        2\4       2\4       2\4       3\6       2\2       1\2      (1\2)      1\2       3\3      
Gold Upkeep       0         0         x1        x1        x2        x1        x2        x2        0        
Shield Upkeep     x1        x1        0         0         0         x1        0         0         x1       
Mil Unhappiness   0         0         0         -1        -1        -1        -2        -1        -1       
Martial Law       +1        0         +1        +1(Max3)  0         0         0         0         +2(Max3) 
                                                                                       
Civil war %       99        90        80        70        60        40        30        20        50       
Empire Size       0         /7        /5        /10       /6        /8        /16       /12       /14      
Special           +NoUpkeep +1 Move   +75%Gold  +50%Gold  +Tithes   +Bribe   +Brib/Sub  +Subvert  +NoUpkeep
                  -50%Lux  (Land/Mil) (Palace)  (Palace)  -50%Sci   -Revolt  -Rev/Sen   -Senate   (Cost=1) 
                  -NoTaxes                                Fanatic             Partisan            Partisan 
                                                                                        
Base Corruption   0%        30%       20%       10%       15%       25%       5%        0%        30%      
Corrup by Dist    1*        1*        1*        1*        1*        1*        1*        0*        0        
Base Waste        30%       0%        10%       20%       15%       5%        25%       30%       0%       
Waste by Dist     1**       1**       1**       1**       1**       1**       1**       0**       0

Governments are the hardest thing to balance, you will surely need some adjustments to adapt them to longturn.
They are currently designed so AI uses all them at medium size maps.
For large temperate maps, I would suggest to restore the trade bonus to ocean tiles under Democracy/Republic, and maybe to readjust the number of free units for the other governments.

If you have played civ3, the initial turns with this ruleset should be pretty similar.
I hope people enjoy it.

bamskamp · Post by **bamskamp** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:57 pm

I appreciate all the work that has gone into this to make it possible. Akfaew, when you have a moment, do you mind updating the git repo for LTeX23B? I'd love to play around with these settings offline.
Thanks!

elrik · Post by **elrik** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:32 am

It is based on civ2-3 modpack so i have a quesion - does this modpack need any special version of FC?? I downloaded the neweest stable version(2.3.2) then civ2-3 modpack and it doesn`t work. Each time i try civserver crushed. I tries Freeland graphic pack and it isn`t working too. I tried on portable version of FC too and still doesn`t work. Sometimes i can`t even set ruleset civ2-3 when starting a game couse server crushes. What can be wrong??

bardo · Post by **bardo** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:15 am

elrik, the mod should work over any Freeciv v2.3.
What you describe happened to me in my pc with windows7 (with the latest freeciv 2.2.3 + latest civ2-3). For some reason the server crashes the first time I save a game (even autosave).
I have tested the modpack on ubuntu, android and windows XP with no problems, I have no idea why it cause problems on w7, but I solved it by executing Freeciv as administrator. Please, could you test it.
It also works if, after the first server crash, I reload the created autosave.

elrik · Post by **elrik** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:47 am

heh, now i can`t even change ruleset. Server crush each time i try to use something else than default

terror · Post by **terror** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:32 pm

elrik: no idea, it's dies for me on w7 too, install on virtual machine

bardo · Post by **bardo** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:13 pm

I think it is related to some read/write permission on user folder. Did you tried to execute Freeciv as Admin (available in the menu when you right click over the .exe)? It works for me, and I only need it the first time I start a new game, then I can reload savegames without problems.

terror · Post by **terror** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:35 pm

NOTICE: for now workers cannot be promoted due to mistake in ruleset, but should be fixed soon

bardo · Post by **bardo** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:44 pm

Migrants can not be upgraded to Engineers in civ2-3 ruleset because they carry one population and you would lose it, but Workers should be upgradable if there is no mistake.
If you mean veterancy by work, it was designed so Engineers can get it, but Workers don't.

kevin551 · Post by **kevin551** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:45 pm

> If you mean veterancy by work, it was designed so Engineers can get it, but Workers don't.

I would view this as a bug not a feature. I hope it is fixed soon. With 10 veteran levels it is quite a fun challenge to match each worker to the appropriate tasks that need doing. It also takes a long time to get workers up to the high levels. Starting promotions only as engineers would make the higher levels unlikely.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:51 am

What does free units 2\4 mean?

Helps in the game should be updated. They don't mention free units, etc. If you compare Tribal vs. Despotism in the helps, it gives the impression there is no reason to go to Tribalism if you have 5 cities or less, since apparently all it would mean is losing martial law.

Would like to see chart above in main Government help section.

bardo · Post by **bardo** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:55 am

It means 2 units per city free of upkeep and free of military unhappiness, and 4 free units when the city has pop>=8.
It is similar to civ3, cities with pop greater than 8 need more food to grow one pop, so they receive more free units and more defense bonus to compensate.
There are useful tables in the readme (mainly terrains, governments and units) with info that is not really included in the help.

The advantage of Tribal is the aditional movement points for mil units, a bit more empire size, and the use of shields to upkeep the units, instead of gold (compared to Despotism).

Let me point here some changes in civ2civ3 readme that could be missed while watching the help:
- Non-military units can not pillage nor capture cities
- Caravans and Freights can only travel on roads, railroads, rivers or ships.
- Infantry units can capture enemy Migrants (as slaves) and Caravans/Freights (as loot).
- Wheeled units can't move to mountains, jungles and swamps, unless they are traveling on a road, and they need Galleons or Transports to travel by sea.
- Bombers and Helicopters receive the Bombarder ability, so they can damage land units, but they can not kill them, and can not be damaged while attacking.
- Nuclear weapons can be built with Nuclear Fission, but you need Advanced Flight to move them, and Rocketry to get max movement.

- Every City receives an inherent Defend_Bonus = +50% against Land units. Every City with Pop>=8 receives an additional free Defend_Bonus = +50% against Land units, and against Sea/Trireme.
- If a city supports more units with gold upkeep than its population size, each extra unit will waste one food. If the population shrinks due to starvation, one of those extra units will be disbanded.
- The Corruption and Waste affects to trade, shileds and also to food.
- Corruption by Distance is increased by 1 until The Corporation is researched by the player. Waste by Distance is increased by 1 until Trade is researched by the player.
- Medicine tech: Reduces by 30% the chance of illness in your cities
- The bonus "+1 Trade" under Republic and Democracy does not affect oceanic tiles

- Mountains give extra vision range. Cities can not be placed over Mountains. Land units starting the turn over a Mountain receive a -1 penalty to movement
- Deserts with a river receive 1 extra food from irrigation
- Aqueduct is cheaper near rivers or lakes
- Lake tiles are not affected by Harbours and Offshore Platforms. Offshore Platforms increase the production of Deep Ocean only if there is a buoy in the Ocean tile.
- Space Components and Modules require a Research Lab and Mfg Plant present in the city.

det0r · Post by **det0r** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:38 pm

bardo wrote: - Every City receives an inherent Defend_Bonus = +50% against Land units. Every City with Pop>=8 receives an additional free Defend_Bonus = +50% against Land units, and against Sea/Trireme.

Previously the units would receive a 'fortified bonus' even if not fortified within a city. Do they still get this, and this is 50% extra? Or is the only difference the additional 50% at Pop>=8?