Longturn.net

Marduk

Administrator

From: Rotterdam, Netherlands

Posts: 151

Re: LT31 will start soon

Good point King! I think what happened was that a player spawned as the barbarian nation, causing trouble when real barbarians spawned. If anyone remembers it differently please share.

akfaew

Administrator

Posts: 622

Re: LT31 will start soon

I modified the generator a bit, this creates more reasonable islands:

Can someone please check what's wrong with our rulesets? Was the syntax changed? I get warnings:
1: Invalid requirement Building | World |  |  | United Nations
1: "/home/dude/server/LT31/data/lt31/effects.ruleset" [effect_united_nations_1] has unknown req: "Building" "United Nations".

Grendel

Player

Posts: 46

Re: LT31 will start soon

I think that is the problem I mentioned.  The LT31 files I got off git had the buildings removed from the rerewonder poll but not their effects.  *Should* be fixed in the ruleset I gave you.  I seem to recall playtesting it and it working fine, but I don't remember for sure.

I don't know if there was a barbarian problem in LT30, but there was one in LTex which you may be thinking of.  That used different settings, where barbarians were accidentally? on.  I think it would be best to revert Pirates and Barbarians to being unplayable.  Those should be reserved for the game imo.  Right now, some one could make a poll to turn on barbarians, but the game would have no barbarian nations to use.

I don't much like the Island setting for the generator, too even and boring, but I could play a game of it.  I agree fractal is the best, with a low landmass.  I also noticed with some settings (all temperate was off I think, not sure what else) that the generator made the polar regions have a lot of mountains, and there were two belts of desert running through the middle of the map, instead of one.  The generator is not the greatest.

IllvilJa

Player

Posts: 51

Re: LT31 will start soon

Maps look wonderful!  Am I right that every player gets their own private island? (The screenshot looks like it)

I don't mind sharing my island with 1 or 2 active players (regardless if those players ally with me or if they wage against with me) as proposed earlier in this thread, only issue is if I end up being the only active player on my island, with one or two idlers to R.I.P at my convenience and with a huge island to expand my economy on undisturbed.  THAT would be a bit wrong...

Requirement to get a working navy before any diplomacy can take place is awesome, as it not only gives some breathing room for players at the start but also rewards wise use of that breathing room so one is prepared for dealing with other islands, be it being a warmonger dead set on expanding overseas or being a diplomacy party-animal trying to ally every reachable island in the neighborhood.

(Navies will matter... YES!)

/IllvilJa

Last edited by IllvilJa (2012-11-04 18:24:12)

Kryon

Administrator

Posts: 370

Re: LT31 will start soon

Akfaew, I think the map looks great! I guess there is a setting to set number of players per island, right? I guess if we set it to 1 player per island, this would be the most balanced game we ever had. I am curious to try it.

akfaew

Administrator

Posts: 622

Re: LT31 will start soon

Yes, every player has his own big island. There is also one empty big island, perhaps an off-by-one bug in the generator.
Additionaly, a number of medium islands.
I have added code to generate 70 small (size < 10) islands.

I increased the space between islands by bumping tilesperplayer to 900 (by 50%).

set generator="ISLAND"
set startpos="SINGLE"
set tinyisles=enabled
set landmass=30
set tilesperplayer=900

Grendel, could you please resend the fixed ruleset? I must have misplaced that email, sorry about that.

elrik

Player

Posts: 108

Re: LT31 will start soon

hmm... It will be good with that map to include some unit changes from ltex2 game. If i remember right in that ruleset not only Marines have Marine flag. Earlier units like legions too.

IllvilJa

Player

Posts: 51

Re: LT31 will start soon

Noticed that with tilesperplayer set to 900 the map seem interesting when it comes to using triremes, as those only may travel on shallow waters.  As far I can tell from the screenshot, the map might turn into a veritable maze for such vessels (and not necessarily a maze where you can find your way to certain destination).

Most likely, this will mostly put pressure on players to get caravels researched and built to break dependency of that 'maze of the sea', but if you akfaew have the time and find it interesting to try it out, you could see what happens with tilesperplayer set to 800 or 850, would triremes access to the world be dramatically improved?  My thought is that we might get a 'non-shitty' island map which still provides quite good access for triremes for traveling between islands.

But a again, this is more a curious reflection regarding the last screenshot.  All in all, the map seem very promising and I'm looking forward to participate.

det0r

Player

Posts: 166

Re: LT31 will start soon

This looks good.

If we use the LT30 ruleset instead of LTeX can you please make sure that the rapture time is increased from 1 (to at least 2, but preferably 3).

I take this to mean that we aren't using the Civ2Civ3 ruleset or whatever it was called?

maho

Player

Posts: 161

Re: LT31 will start soon

Noticed that with tilesperplayer set to 900 the map seem interesting when it comes to using triremes, as those only may travel on shallow waters.

AFAIR Trireme can travel on every water, but only on shallow is safe (won't sink).

monamipierrot

Player

Posts: 171

Re: LT31 will start soon

Noticed that with tilesperplayer set to 900 the map seem interesting when it comes to using triremes, as those only may travel on shallow waters.  As far I can tell from the screenshot, the map might turn into a veritable maze for such vessels (and not necessarily a maze where you can find your way to certain destination).

I find the map much better than any setting I could try myself for island generator. (Good job Akfaew, please share your secrets!)
As a big fan of fractal maps I still found it "boring", because it's just one island next to the other. Anyway, your observation about the shallow water is smart. I think deep ocean may add some spice putting unpassable borders between islands, at least in the first half of the game.
Don't take it bad, but I would say that the map is interesting TILL caravel are built, so you gave me an idea which is somewhat the opposite of yours  : to enhance the shallow-water-maze effect by one or more of these means:

1 - set islands at a convenient distance from each other allowing only some of the civilization to contact each other early. (this should be trimmed with great accouracy to avoid any possible complete "isolation"*)
2 - improve cost for caravels and all advanced sea units (x2 may be enough)
3a - make Navigation harder to achieve
3b - a very interesting alternative to (3a): "Columbus Voyage". Building Caravels requires Navigation (as always) AND the existence of Great Wonder "Columbus Voyage" (which requires a unrelated tech, as Monarchy, or Trade, or even Banking...). As it would be a Great Wonder (only one in the world), it would be something similar to Manhattan for Nukes, and it would oficially trigger some "Modern Age". Maybe nobody would choose to build it, but then... no caravels: you'll have to wait till Magnetism or Steam Engine if you want to cross the Deep Oceans! ("Columbus Voyage" may also be very expensive but give some extra +1mp movement as well.)

AFAIR Trireme can travel on every water, but only on shallow is safe (won't sink).

This was the vanilla Civilization I behaviour. Are you sure? The trireme-russian-roulette could be interesting but we need to know if it is activated in LT31 chosen ruleset. Can someone check it out?

* If an archipelago= group of islands connected by shallow waters while surrounded by deep ocean, the best trim would produce some 4-8 archipelagoes of at least 4 inhabited islands each. I understnad that it may be hard to set the generator in order to have reasonable chanches to achieve this, so I can also live with a "maze" or "network" of connected islands, just as intricated as possible.

Vendicar

Player

Posts: 21

Re: LT31 will start soon

Please, not an islands map....

maho

Player

Posts: 161

Re: LT31 will start soon

Please, not an islands map....

Folks, I think that it's very bad time for debating about settings. We had about ... year for changing them by votings. Why just not use what we have?

Grendel

Player

Posts: 46

Re: LT31 will start soon

Have to say I kinda like the new islands map.  More space between islands looks good. 

In theory, tilesperplayer does not increase distance between islands but number of islands (I think size remains the same on an Islands map).  It is defined as "number of (land) tiles per player".  Maybe this is not accurate though.  Or maybe Akfaew messed with it.  I see islands are much bigger than normal.  Normally, only landmass should affect distance between islands I think.  Increasing tilesperplayer would make people's empires bigger, increase the amount of time to make contact with another player at the beginning, and make the game run longer.  I could go for a much smaller number, maybe 300, but whatever.

Note enabling tiny isles will make single-tile uncapturable-until-marines islands.

Triremes cannot go on Deep Ocean tiles.  It's been that way for a while.  If islands are close to each other, they will be connected by Ocean.  Look at the larger screenshot.  The light blue squares are Ocean and you can see islands are connected.

Ruleset resent Akfaew.

Last edited by Grendel (2012-11-05 02:50:01)

mrsynical

Player

Posts: 171

Re: LT31 will start soon

Please, not an islands map....

Folks, I think that it's very bad time for debating about settings. We had about ... year for changing them by votings. Why just not use what we have?

Well the last ruleset didn't use islands, so I don't know how that turned up. If we are going to do islands I think they should be relatively large.

If we do small island we won't be visiting any other islands for the first 2-3 months (probably need caravels?) which will be a slow start to a game. If the defending players are any good, then shouldn't be  any proper landings until marines :-)

Maho - Triremes cannot go on Deep Ocean tiles (now-a-days).

elrik

Player

Posts: 108

Re: LT31 will start soon

I`ve foung ltex2.3b ruleset if someone likes to see it:) http://sdrv.ms/Vsm7ie

I took a look at it and i think it pass to island game MUCH more. There are A LOT of changes which i think makes game more hmm... better:) For example that Marines flag. In ex23b game swordsmen, musketeers and rifflemans have it too, but on the other hand barracks are available from the beggining, coastal def are available faster too.

I really like to see a game with that ruleset.

BTW> is it right that bribe factor and total factor for are 10000?

Last edited by elrik (2012-11-05 07:01:42)

mrsynical

Player

Posts: 171

Re: LT31 will start soon

Discussion about revolt "bug" in LT30

http://forum.longturn.org/viewtopic.php?id=87

I`ve foung ltex2.3b ruleset if someone likes to see it:) http://sdrv.ms/Vsm7ie

I took a look at it and i think it pass to island game MUCH more. There are A LOT of changes which i think makes game more hmm... better:) For example that Marines flag. In ex23b game swordsmen, musketeers and rifflemans have it too, but on the other hand barracks are available from the beggining, coastal def are available faster too.

I really like to see a game with that ruleset.

BTW> is it right that bribe factor and total factor for are 10000?

elrik

Player

Posts: 108

Re: LT31 will start soon

I know that we`ve already talked about that. I just didn`t remember which value is right there:) In ltex2.3b ruleset it is lower:)

monamipierrot

Player

Posts: 171

Re: LT31 will start soon

Please, not an islands map....

Folks, I think that it's very bad time for debating about settings. We had about ... year for changing them by votings. Why just not use what we have?

You're right. Let's go keeping fractal. I would only propose a vote to set landmass=30 or less to see naval battles and more than 1 continent.

elrik

Player

Posts: 108

Re: LT31 will start soon

What if we add  to workers a possibility to change oceans into land instead?:) It can be very fun then too:)

That + complete ltex23b ruleset

Maybe it is good to try something new after such long pause...

Last edited by elrik (2012-11-05 10:49:10)

mrsynical

Player

Posts: 171

Re: LT31 will start soon

I know that we`ve already talked about that. I just didn`t remember which value is right there:) In ltex2.3b ruleset it is lower:)

Ah! I thought you mean the factor in 2.3b was 10,000.

elrik

Player

Posts: 108

Re: LT31 will start soon

lt 30 = 10000
2.3b = 750 if i remeber right

akfaew

Administrator

Posts: 622

Re: LT31 will start soon

A test server is up and running. If lt31.longturn.org gives you problems use games5.gameplanet.net.nz (it should work in 48 hours).

This is a test game only, it will be restarted. Try if you can log in. Type /observe to observe. Last chance to check settings! I used rulesets from LTeX23B.

MalibuJack

Player

Posts: 3

Re: LT31 will start soon

I am getting a 'Connection refused' error at both addresses. I'm running Freeciv 2.3.1 on Linux, port 5556, attempting to log in as 'MalibuJack'.

Kryon

Administrator

Posts: 370

Re: LT31 will start soon

what is the port? I tried 5555 and got "Operation completed successfully." but I could not login.