#1 2012-04-09 08:54:56

akfaew
Administrator
Posts: 622

I'm overthrowing democracy

Democracy in Longturn isn't working, I will thus make changes to the rulesets as I see fit. I'll be notifying about each change of course. You still can make a poll if you don't like something, but now I can ignore it. The reason for this is fiew people actually using the polls, and everybody expecting me to make everything perfect anyway.

LT31 will start about a week or two after I find hosting, as LT30 is taking 70% of memory at games5. The alternative is to start on games5 and potentialy use swap space, which will make both games more laggy.

LT31 will feature:
* Less wonders
* Rapture delay 1
* A bit more water than LT30

LT31 will perhaps feature:
* Limit online time
* No worker movement and no pillage action 30 minutes before TC (this will profoundly affect the game and should be tested in ltex first)
* Statistics breakdown of biggest polluters on the www.

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#2 2012-04-09 12:57:00

KG
Player
Posts: 26

Re: I'm overthrowing democracy

If you really wish to reduce the necessity to be around while tc there should be a worker building delay implemented. No roads 30 minutes before tc is a somewhat solution but you still need to be around tc hour to act. Being so at 2 AM is not nice, but lets say checking game at 10 PM before bed and again at 7 AM before work is acceptable thus I think it would be better if road/railroad build effect would be somehow delayed by 10 hours. Yes, I know it requires a big change in server, maybe I will try to do it myself, but I suppose it will take some time, since I've never coded freeciv before...

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#3 2012-04-09 14:57:56

elrik
Player
Posts: 108

Re: I'm overthrowing democracy

Rapture delay - 1?? 18/20 votes were for changing into 3. only 1 vote against. So why it can`t be changed?

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#4 2012-04-10 14:11:48

KG
Player
Posts: 26

Re: I'm overthrowing democracy

True. Short rapture makes democracy govt a must, reducing amount of possible strategies and increasing simcity like behaviour smile

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#5 2012-04-10 23:16:21

cgalik
Player
From: Chicago
Posts: 307

Re: I'm overthrowing democracy

akfaew, Thanks for your administration of all this.  I think it's a ton of fun, and it's cool that you do it for us.  I support you, King akfaew.  smile

I think the 30 minute no worker movement & pillaging will help.  KG, maybe he could just stretch this out to 10 hours?  Then you have 13 (23 - 10) hours to do worker/pillaging and that should cover before and after sleep.  Whatever you decide akfaew, it will be better than LT30.

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#6 2012-04-11 09:06:22

mrsynical
Player
Posts: 171

Re: I'm overthrowing democracy

I agree worker/pillaging delay should be much greater than 30 minutes. Ideally this code should be tested on Ltex? We've tried setting delays for specific units in the past and this lead to a bunch of unexpected consequences. Is it possible/easy to randomise turn change? That would help quite a bit.

Surely rapture delay of 1 is a mistake?

We should reduce physical map size (I think there was way too much room in lt30 - maybe just my area?) and have map size scaled depending on number of players.

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#7 2012-04-11 14:08:34

akfaew
Administrator
Posts: 622

Re: I'm overthrowing democracy

elrik wrote:

Rapture delay - 1?? 18/20 votes were for changing into 3. only 1 vote against. So why it can`t be changed?

In lt30 it's hard to go above size 30. Add to that the removal of most wonders. I think this change will promote switching governments, and taking into account the fact that there will be no statue of liberty, this will add some difficulty.

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#8 2012-04-11 15:48:22

IllvilJa
Player
Posts: 51

Re: I'm overthrowing democracy

Overthrowing democracy?  So there's two turns of anarchy now in the forum? I'm on! (obviously...)

REDUCING MAP SIZE AND PERHAPS SCALE DOWN SPACE PER PLAYER IF MANY PLAYERS (ILLVILJA SUGGESTS 'YES')

I'm with MrSynical on this one.  A huge map consumes a lot of resources on the server, on the network, on the client and in the brain of players (not to mention the strain it puts on custom scripts, oh dear).  Make the map no bigger than LT30 under any circumstances.  Give players max 2/3 of the space they got in LT30.


RESTRICTING WORKER ACTIVITY BEFORE TC (ILLVILJA SUGGESTS 'NO')

Personally, I don't see it that much of a problem that players, who stick around at TC, get some edge over players who are not playing at TC. (For the record, I belong to the players not always around at TC and thus one of those who might suffer:) )

Therefore, for what it's worth, I vote 'no' for restricting worker movement, worker orders and pillaging orders 30 minutes before TC.  Having some settings aimed at reducing playing-at-TC-edge, like unitwait, are fine, but I think we should not add too many such settings, and forcing people to keep track of even more things.  That does not exactly make the game easier to grasp for newbies (or more experienced players either for that matter).

Also, I want to say I'm not in favor of establishing any informal rules in LT31 that forbid dual-activities during TC (like building a road with one unit just before TC and then carrying out an attack just after TC).  Informal rules adds an additional layer of social complexity for players and admins and I think that that layer should be kept as thin as possible.  Otherwise one runs into the need to not just master 'playing the game' but also to master 'playing the community', which I think is a bit backwards.

How freeciv works, with immediate real time manipulation of the world + regular TCs, is a concept that is quite straightforward to grasp.  Yes, it is easy for a newbie player to figure out on his own that it is somewhat advantageous to hang around at TC, but I think we should see that simplicity of the TC concept as an advantage and not keep looking at the advantage TC-players get.

/IllvilJa

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#9 2012-04-11 16:49:10

elrik
Player
Posts: 108

Re: I'm overthrowing democracy

akfaew wrote:

In lt30 it's hard to go above size 30. Add to that the removal of most wonders. I think this change will promote switching governments, and taking into account the fact that there will be no statue of liberty, this will add some difficulty.

Its not about to what size can you grow, but what road lead you to that size. Rapture speed 1 makes demo and rapture the only way for anyone to be up to date. With rapture speed 3 or even 4 there is a chance for any goverment to be playable. Its crazy that you can now in just few days double or even triple your possibilites. Nothing can balance that.

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#10 2012-04-11 17:24:40

akfaew
Administrator
Posts: 622

Re: I'm overthrowing democracy

With rapture speed 3 it would take half a game to grow a city from size 3 to 30. Which can then be poissoned down to 1 in one turn.

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#11 2012-04-11 18:54:07

elrik
Player
Posts: 108

Re: I'm overthrowing democracy

Well... Where is a condition that you MUST have cities size 30?? I rather like to set rapture speed 4 and let everyone choose the way he wants to play than to force anyone to choose the only path. Bigger sizy range means NOT ONLY that city MUST be bigger but ALSO means that city each size CAN be better than with common range. By this game we`ve never had any problem with rapture delay. We saw that not once and not twice, with rapture speed 1 almost always the first person/ally reaching rapture wins. I think that since we limit that we had much more fun.

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#12 2012-04-12 00:44:06

Kryon
Player
Posts: 360

Re: I'm overthrowing democracy

I agree with Elrik here. A rapture delay of 1 turn makes Democracy too strong and Communism too weak. It's much more fun if the choice of government is not a very easy decision.

I agree poisoning is a problem but we can solve it by decreasing the value of the diplchance setting.

Last edited by Kryon (2012-04-12 00:45:36)

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