#1 2018-08-31 22:27:02

Hans_Lemurson
Player
From: Silicon Valley
Posts: 182

Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Archers, given the experimental Bombardment ability in this game, are a handy unit, and very different than most others in the game.

Gunpowder makes them go obsolete and there is no replacement unit with the Bombard ability. sad

In truth their bombard power was too weak to be of any real importance, and mainly were useful as Scouts, but I think their obsolescence is a bit of an oversight.

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#2 2018-09-01 09:46:58

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,015

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Well, giving them the Bombarder flag and not giving it to no other unit was a "compromise" that basically broke common sense. For the record, Iw as against it smile

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#3 2018-09-01 15:35:16

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,835

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

The bombardment ability of the archers is removed for the future games.

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#4 2018-09-01 15:36:19

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,835

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Then again while it didn't work out it was a nice experiment and now we know (for sure:) the downside of that kind of ability for an early unit.

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#5 2018-09-01 18:47:04

jwrober
Administrator
From: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 85

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

What was the downside of archer bombard?

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#6 2018-09-01 19:08:16

wieder
Administrator
Posts: 1,835

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

The downside was the ability to get info from the defenders without a certainty to lose the unit investigating the city. This may sound like not that big deal but it can be really effective if you know what you are doing.

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#7 2018-09-01 19:18:18

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,015

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Not a downside in my view.

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#8 2018-09-02 03:03:47

cgalik
Player
From: Chicago
Posts: 311

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Too big of an upside is my view, big game change. (fun for sure, but probably too much info)

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#9 2018-09-02 08:24:30

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,015

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Well, compared to diplomats, partial risk for partial information. Seems legit.

Also, keeping secret the number of units in a city is an illusion and doesn't really make sense. You can choose to think that it does, it's a computer game after all, you can choose anything you want. But there is more reason for not being able to keep it a secret.

Yes, it's a big change from what people got used to over the years, and that's the main problem. It's hard to adapt to a big change. But then, again, it can be argued  that it is a change for the better.

Last edited by Corbeau (2018-09-02 08:27:32)

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#10 2018-09-02 10:31:02

Wahazar
Administrator
Posts: 232

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Corbeau wrote:

Well, compared to diplomats, partial risk for partial information. Seems legit.

I second this - diplomat reveal full information including buildings, production etc.
Additionally, it is not possible to bombard from aboard - you need to unload unit first, thus trireme recon raid argument, held in other thread, was invalid.

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#11 2018-09-02 10:49:26

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,015

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Oh, trireme recon is valid. Triremes can move through rivers, so bring an archer on a trireme, attack, load back, move trireme. Still, needs specific terrain - city next to a river tile - and is perfectly realistic and eligible.

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#12 2018-09-02 12:27:47

Wahazar
Administrator
Posts: 232

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Corbeau wrote:

Oh, trireme recon is valid. Triremes can move through rivers, so bring an archer on a trireme, attack, load back, move trireme. Still, needs specific terrain - city next to a river tile - and is perfectly realistic and eligible.

No, it isn't. Bombardent flag code assume that unit is airborne and transported on carrier, see:
http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.ph … 350#p99458
I tested it during implementation of artillery turrets: http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.ph … 430#p99472 - no bombardment even if on native tile, while loaded.
There is appropriate warning message if you trying to do this.

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#13 2018-09-02 13:37:17

Corbeau
Administrator
Posts: 1,015

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Erm... Yes, unload it first, attack, reload it without moving. Unless I'm wrong, loading is possible even with 0 moves left.

Isn't it?

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#14 2018-09-02 13:46:58

Wahazar
Administrator
Posts: 232

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Corbeau wrote:

Erm... Yes, unload it first, attack, reload it without moving. Unless I'm wrong, loading is possible even with 0 moves left.

You are right, I forgot that on land it is possible to load/unload on-site.

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