Longturn.net

Hans_Lemurson

Player

From: Silicon Valley

Posts: 183

Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Archers, given the experimental Bombardment ability in this game, are a handy unit, and very different than most others in the game.

Gunpowder makes them go obsolete and there is no replacement unit with the Bombard ability.

In truth their bombard power was too weak to be of any real importance, and mainly were useful as Scouts, but I think their obsolescence is a bit of an oversight.

Corbeau

Administrator

Posts: 1,025

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Well, giving them the Bombarder flag and not giving it to no other unit was a "compromise" that basically broke common sense. For the record, Iw as against it

wieder

Administrator

Posts: 1,863

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

The bombardment ability of the archers is removed for the future games.

wieder

Administrator

Posts: 1,863

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Then again while it didn't work out it was a nice experiment and now we know (for sure:) the downside of that kind of ability for an early unit.

jwrober

Administrator

From: San Antonio, TX

Posts: 87

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

What was the downside of archer bombard?

wieder

Administrator

Posts: 1,863

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

The downside was the ability to get info from the defenders without a certainty to lose the unit investigating the city. This may sound like not that big deal but it can be really effective if you know what you are doing.

Corbeau

Administrator

Posts: 1,025

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Not a downside in my view.

cgalik

Player

From: Chicago

Posts: 311

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Too big of an upside is my view, big game change. (fun for sure, but probably too much info)

Corbeau

Administrator

Posts: 1,025

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Well, compared to diplomats, partial risk for partial information. Seems legit.

Also, keeping secret the number of units in a city is an illusion and doesn't really make sense. You can choose to think that it does, it's a computer game after all, you can choose anything you want. But there is more reason for not being able to keep it a secret.

Yes, it's a big change from what people got used to over the years, and that's the main problem. It's hard to adapt to a big change. But then, again, it can be argued  that it is a change for the better.

Last edited by Corbeau (2018-09-02 08:27:32)

Wahazar

Administrator

Posts: 232

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Well, compared to diplomats, partial risk for partial information. Seems legit.

I second this - diplomat reveal full information including buildings, production etc.
Additionally, it is not possible to bombard from aboard - you need to unload unit first, thus trireme recon raid argument, held in other thread, was invalid.

Corbeau

Administrator

Posts: 1,025

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Oh, trireme recon is valid. Triremes can move through rivers, so bring an archer on a trireme, attack, load back, move trireme. Still, needs specific terrain - city next to a river tile - and is perfectly realistic and eligible.

Wahazar

Administrator

Posts: 232

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Oh, trireme recon is valid. Triremes can move through rivers, so bring an archer on a trireme, attack, load back, move trireme. Still, needs specific terrain - city next to a river tile - and is perfectly realistic and eligible.

No, it isn't. Bombardent flag code assume that unit is airborne and transported on carrier, see:
http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.ph … 350#p99458
I tested it during implementation of artillery turrets: http://forum.freeciv.org/f/viewtopic.ph … 430#p99472 - no bombardment even if on native tile, while loaded.
There is appropriate warning message if you trying to do this.

Corbeau

Administrator

Posts: 1,025

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Erm... Yes, unload it first, attack, reload it without moving. Unless I'm wrong, loading is possible even with 0 moves left.

Isn't it?

Wahazar

Administrator

Posts: 232

Re: Archers vanish with Gunpowder.

Erm... Yes, unload it first, attack, reload it without moving. Unless I'm wrong, loading is possible even with 0 moves left.

You are right, I forgot that on land it is possible to load/unload on-site.