#1 Re: Longturn.net services » Structure of the longturn project » 2021-09-25 19:44:12

Ok, so if I understand right, You would like announcement channels for rule/ruleset changes for all the games we are playing. We do have news/announcement channels already which are read-only so it is not really a technical limitation. Every single channel in the *main* category apart from general is read-only and only admins can post in it. So, I guess all that needs to happen now is to agree upon a list of things which needs to be announced so that the mods can use the *news-channel* in the discord server (which is a read only announcement channel) correctly.

One of the things we do is to have a bot post ruleset changes on github directly to discord on the #ruleset-discussion channel. We could maybe move that to a read-only channel.
Apart from that, we have new game announcements and administrative announcements. Administrative announcements already go in #news-channel. Would you like a new read-only channel for new games and game related announcements too ? We could do that.

#2 Ruleset analysis and discussion » Changes to restrictinfra » 2021-08-05 17:45:12

Replies: 6

This post is based on discussions with louis, corbeau, wieder and jwrober. I am just putting it all together here.

Why do we want to change it:
The whole point of restrict infra is to avoid massive invasions where you can lose entire empires in a single turn. There have been quite a bit of realism/gameplay discussions around this feature, but it still doesnt exactly solve the problem it is supposed to solve. Any talented player can quite easily figure out a way to attack quite deep using the fact that borders change immediately after capturing the city.

A couple of ideas have been proposed regarding this.
1) Borders change only at TC
2) There will be n turns of restrict infra on newly conquered cities.
3) *The Winning idea IMO* Generalize restrict infra to be based on units too along with borders.
4) Reduce working area of city for n turns after conquering

I will explain 3 in more detail from this point on.
Realistically, it is not the borders which make units move slower in enemy terrain but the presence of enemy units. So, we dont just let borders decide if there is restrict infra or not but the presence of enemy units too. Here is now it works, each unit has a strength for restrict infra. Say, immediate circle 0.5, one ring higher 0.25 etc.. and borders also have a strength (say, 0.5). In each tile, all the strengths are added up and then if the total strength is > 1, restrictinfra is activated.

In this model, our current behavior can be recreated if we set border strength to 1 and units to zero.

One of the issues is info leak from units inside cities preventing bluffing. We can probably get around that by giving occupied cities a fixed strength irrespective of units inside.

This can also probably added to effects so that we can have buildings/wonders/tech which change these factors.

#3 LT58 » Declaration of Victory » 2021-03-29 20:13:05

Replies: 2

You know how the ol' joke goes,
"An anarchist, a democrat and a federalist walk into a japanese bar..."
I forgot the rest, but anyways, they would like to declare victory and drinks for everybody :beers:

(Just to be super formal -  me, @TriClad and @zrcalo  would like to declare victory.)

#4 Re: New and current games » Less narrow and more... hollistic... scoring » 2020-08-07 20:59:54

Hey. I am a total newbie to this game. So I apologize is advance if my rambling makes no sense, or they are totally impossible to implement in the game.

But as someone super interested in this general topic of being a non-military nation from various other strategy games and a history buff I would like to chime in on this. Feel free to say it is totally ignorant of what is possible or not in the game so that I can stop doing such rants in the future.

There are 2 aspects in this. One is to make players concentrate on development and second is to have development have a lasting impact, so that people leave the attitude of "if i destroy the best, I become the best"

One aspect I would definitely like to see in such games building upon the previous idea by wieder to have averages, but also to have a new scoring system which accounts or mimics for HDI (Human Development Index) in the real world. This is relevant because in these games any research done becomes immediately accessible to the entire population in the country. Which is not the case in the real world. Smaller countries enjoy being well-connected and have lesser inequality and more penetration of facilities.

Before the scoring way, There is a gameplay way where this could be implemented. Here, technology or tech researches move outwards from major cities (by this I mean, new buildings become available only to the capital or big cities first and move outwards from that) in a speed dependent on how well-connected they are (like quality of roads and stuff, or even with migrant transfer in this game). This mimics the real world scenario of cities being the centre for governance and facilities move outwards from that. I understand this could be really hard to implement since it introduces a new game play mechanic of different tech for different cities.

Second way, is to do the same thing using a score. Instead of just taking averages like wieder suggested, and to avoid the aspect of good big countries being penalized, and to avoid keeping track of score throughout the entire game. We can look at something like the weighted average of all the cities, weighed by how well they are connected to the biggest (or most scoring city) city. (It would also be nice if citizens lose happiness if they aren't connected to the main city, no matter how much entertainment you give to mimic the HDI aspect). This can be done by having some sort of damping parameter which goes to 1 with the best possible roads. We compute the score seeing how many connections are needed to the main city from every city and add them all together. This way a lot of small cities at the edge of your kingdom won't really contribute to the score.

Now, comes the second aspect of not letting a country such as this easily become a victim of military conquest. I think it a country needs to be harder to govern as it becomes bigger. So we use something like relating connectivity to happiness like in the previous para to stop the kingdom from stretching too big without satisfying all the people. Another way is to make a "good" country indispensable in the game so that a military based country wont want to attack and take over such a country. One way is to make trade complicated (I dont know of trade in this game yet, so I will leave it to you guys to think about this). But, something along the lines of certain materials or technology dominating the market and it takes a while for a different country to research the same tech again if the parent country is destroyed makes trade as something a lot more vital.  Historically, trade was so important that even during WW1 it is suggested that Germany and Britain traded glass and rubber DURING THE WAR. So, it should not be a matter of a simple upgrade or taking over resources like in many games. A simple workaround for now could be the option to completely scorch a location before being completely taken over. (Like all resources in the tiles the city is controlling goes to zero in sometime) so that the invader doesn't just keep getting more and more resources as he occupies more, which rarely happens in the real world. (Even something like citizens having grudge and having more tendency to lose happiness works). Grand strategy games such as Europa Universalis implement these things as being harder to maintain cities which belong to different ethnicities. A simplified model along those lines would also work. This coupled with the fact that bigger nations need to be better connected, it really is a hindrance to be military minded in the game.

Anyways, This is my first post here and I apologize for hijacking such a high level discussion of the game as a newbie. Feel free to let me know that all this is irrelevant or impossible to implement in the game.I just got interested since this is a gameplay mechanic I wanted to see in games for a long time.

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