Delegations to zoltan

[wieder]

I'll copy my answer from Discord to here:

wieder_fiToday at 2:09 PM
ok... read all the messages. lots of stuff
in the past delegations were supposed to last at least few turns and this was changed so that people could have delegates for just one turn
it's also understandable that mistakes happen and sometimes you make mistakes when playing for delegated nations
stuff happens, yeah....
now if the outcome was not changed, that makes me to wonder why was xandr's nation /taken
zoltan is a very good player and also quite smart so this is maybe not only about getting advantage but maybe a message. so... is there something you would like to say or change about the rules? I already made one proposition on the forum about how we could deal with two players playing at the same turn. if that's really needed. let's see if anyone even remembers seeing that one I'll post the link when I can found it myself
anyway..

wieder_fiToday at 2:17 PM
if there is more actions where two players control the same nation in the same turn and this has happened often enough in the past, I'll start removing the delegations or changing them to another player. while rts is allowed, it's really going over the line when this kind of stuff happens

[wieder]

I only remember one player getting banned for lt.org games and even while it made sense at the time, I now think even that ban didn't really serve the purpose.

There is cheating, "cheating" and ""cheating"".

Some consider training battleships against warriors cheating. I don't. That's ""cheating""

I don't go into details and drawing the fine line between getting advantage from stuff and cheating but only say that some things Kevin refer to may or may not be actually cheating.

[Corbeau]

Ok, we're going to need a bit clearer definition here because this time, I'm afraid, "common sense will apply" won't work. There is simply so much grey area that you either need to strictly define things or declare that everything or nothing is allowed.

You will NOT be able to make judgements solely on a case-to-case bases.

[Lord_P]

Sooo... what is going on here.
I play my turn once a day, rarely more. I dont have time to be online all the time or chat on forums/discord etc, thats the whole reason why I play longturn.
A few times Zoltan has been too impatient to wait for me to play my turn and has decided to take my turn for me. Which pisses me off and based on behaviour in other games I think hes a bit of a prick....but hey, hes the team leader so ok its his choice....

Now I cant log in to this game, or LT42 which was getting a lot more interesting. Password reset???

I think im done with Longturn. Seems to be no point to be competing with/against players who taje it way too seriously and have time to be on it all day.
Its been fun, goodbye.

[zoltan]

At the very least you could have read in-game messages and played along

[wieder]

Lord_P, I saw your connection attempts and just thought you were typing it wrong because it was the day of the national sports after all. Now I checked and there should be nothing wrong with your account or the password. At least I wasn't able to find anything wrong. Only me (edit: and edrim) and akfaew could disable your account or change the password and I don't believe akfaew did that since there is no reason. And I didn't do that.

I'm sorry to hear you are done. I really hope you will return one day. We had some trouble with the longturn.org games in the past but it was usually solved in a reasonable way for future setups.

For the others, I'll remove delegations from players who are using unnecessary delegations. The players can also remove the delegations themselves if they want to.

[louis94]

Thank you wieder for taking action. I hope the delegations will be removed soon.

For the record:

Code: Select all

<me attacking>
[14:11:39] (T58 - 08:41:56) zoltan has connected from xxx (player zoltan).
[14:11:39] (T58 - 09:00:00) zoltan now controls Kingi (Human, Alive).
[14:11:39] (T58 - 09:00:52) zoltan now controls zoltan (Human, Alive).
[14:11:39] (T58 - 09:12:50) Lost connection: zoltan from xxx (client disconnected) (player zoltan).
[14:11:39] (T58 - 11:06:29) Kingi has connected from yyy.
[14:11:39] (T58 - 11:07:11) Kingi now controls Kingi (Human, Alive).
[14:11:39] (T58 - 11:54:12) Lost connection: Kingi from yyy (client disconnected) (player Kingi).
<Kingi's unit moved to prevent bribery of zoltan's unit>

[wieder]

And what is this?

(T58 - 00:11:43) Kingi now controls Kingi (Human, Alive).
(T58 - 00:12:51) Kingi now controls zoltan (Human, Alive).
(T58 - 00:13:47) Kingi now controls Kingi (Human, Alive).

[wieder]

Most of the delegations in question have been removed.

[Corbeau]

My god, it's an orgy out there!

[buggy]

Thank you, wieder, indeed for taking action. Since this can be easily undone by players themselves, can we agree that should zoltan try this again, he is going to at least get suspended for N turns if not banned outright from LT45?

I completely agree that mistakes can happen and there should not be any automatic bans. However, we are not a court of law: when something feels wrong and smells wrong, consequences can be applied. I don't see why exceptions to normal established behavior have to be accomodated so that a guy, whom I can only classify as toxic to the LT community, can keep pushing boundaries and keep exploiting the slowliness of the wheels of justice.

I am very sad that Lord_P decided to leave and I do hope he will reconsider. Although I was disappointed with Kingi's stance on the situation, I also hope that zoltan's behaviour can be disassociated from the rest of Team Black who might just be unwilling participants in this charade.

[zoltan]

I could not be around for tc that turn, so my delegate played

[kevin551]

..There is cheating, "cheating" and ""cheating""...

Yes. I totally agree. Lots of grey areas here.

I will refresh your memory on one of the previous occurrences of 'cheating'.

In LT30 Wieder and I were both in the same mass alliance. Aloril was the leader.
We were fighting a small alliance lead by 'Terror. ( 'Terror' is an alias for someone who had previously been banned for cheating)

'Terror' was cheating using attack scripts.
Aloril was cheating using a data logger.

Both sides were cheating. Wieder and I were part of the process. The data logger required all allied players to stay on 24/7 to get the maximum vision.

Of course, both sides claimed the other were cheating more than them. When the game turned against 'Terror' he started password hacking his opponents.
This was deemed to be real ''''cheating''', and he got banned for the second time.

My response to this is here **Terror banned from Longturn**

>"I will not complain if in the future he returns with a different username." Which of course he did in LT32.

And back to this game.
I view Zoltan's actions as something annoying that can be easily fixed, without having to threaten leaving the game over.

Lord_P don't quit. Just remove delegation access. Tell him what you think and carry on.
You are one of the 'good' players, that make this community so worthwhile.

[zoltan]

I have only taken lordp to accept diplomacy windows

[Corbeau]

What, you want him banned from the forum, too?

How about you stop? You made your point. Action was taken. Abuse stopped, for now, if it continues, more action will be taken. Now stop whining.

[zoe]

Livius, Wieder took away all delegations to Zoltan (except for Lord_P as he left the game and removing his delegation would create a permanent idler for Blacks).

[Corbeau]

You are a total whinger Corbeau. You have posted 9 times in this thread. The same as me. Just glad you are not the admin...

It's not about the amount, it's about the content.