LT49 debrief

[louis94]

Hello everyone,

Here are a few items that I want to put up for discussion after LT49.

1. Funda was too powerful. Every building producing luxury would also produce gold, turning temples, cathedrals and happiness wonders into gold mills. No gov before demo could compete with that.
2. Crusaders were a dead end. They had roughly the same defense as pikemen while being more expensive and a musket-era unit. So they were obsolete from day one, and would not upgrade to fanatics.
3. Early land units weren't very useful. More action would have taken place before T50 if the land units had been a bit more powerful. For example, catapults become a defensive unit because they can't be moved between islands.
4. Submarines were way too powerful. In an island game with so many sea tiles, subs are basically invulnerable. A navy wanting to check even 50% of the tiles needs many ships, and subs aren't easy targets even for destroyers. But subs also have great offensive capabilities even before nukes since they can eliminate any enemy ship. After Manhattan and advanced flight, they can be used to nuke any city on the map (in contrast with land games where only a fraction of the cities can be reached this way).

While I found the ruleset well balanced for land-based games, LT49 has been less interesting. Maybe island games simply need a different ruleset.

Here's an idea for the issue with subs:

• Decrease submarine vision. It makes sense since they are under water. This can render them much less effective at chasing enemy ships: a useful navy would need to use surface vessels for scouting.
• Nukes don't get moves with advanced flight. Instead, they can be carried by bombers. They can still be carried by subs (or maybe transports?) but chains are only possible with bases.
• A new, more expensive nuke comes with rocketry or space flight. This one can move by itself, but opponents had more time to react.

I just realized that the range of bombers is much larger than nukes... but you lose the bomber so the price is higher. Aircraft carriers would also become more powerful.

Louis

[kamBLR]

Agree everything except funda.
The problem is low cost of tech after researching of other players. I think The tech must get smth like minus 1% of cost after 1 player got it. Of course u will stay in funda knowing that u can get tech easy after most players have it.

[wieder]

Let's try this for LT50

- tech leakage (making the techs more cheap after the other have researched it) has been at 100% - this will be tuned down to 60%

This has been a feature people have been wishing for for some time

[kamBLR]

Whats mean 100% and 60%? Can u tell for example for tech that cost 1000 bulbs what will happen after players research it?

[wieder]

With 10 players and with tech leakage of 100% a 1000 bulb tech will cost 500 bulbs 1000-(1000*0.5*1) once 5 players have researched the tech.

With 10 players and with tech leakage of 60& a 1000 bulb tech will cost 700 bulbs 1000-(1000*0.5*0.6) once 5 players have the tech.

It basically means now that with 60% the tech costs are recuded only 60% instead of 100%. With 100% cost the techs would become completely free in the end. With 60% the techs will only cost 40% of the original in the end.

Maybe we should make it slightly more easy to steal techs now. Perhaps changing that from 8% to 12%?

[kamBLR]

Thanks for description, 60% much better than 100%. But may be 40% instead of 60%? And more chance to steel tech